# Should US high schools drop sports?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 19, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037 "2020-09-19T22:48:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/221 "2020-09-29T16:40:36Z")
> [@urbanredneck2](#):
>
> Your right in that for example in football for I think every 1000 HS players only 1 on average makes the pros.
> **[High school football players in the U.S. 2021/2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/267955/participation-in-us-high-school-football/)**
>
> The combined number of male and female participants playing traditional American football at high school level in the United States declined significantly in 2021/2022 versus the pre-COVID-19 years.
I doubt that over 1,000 HS players make the pros _every_ year.
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### Author:  [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/222 "2020-09-29T20:10:07Z")
I would guess closer to 1 in 10,000? This depends on definitions - there are lower level professional teams with commensurate pay. Not everyone (probably most) who plays professionally makes it to the biggest leagues.
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### Author:  [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/223 "2020-09-29T22:41:27Z")
But what do you all think about other careers in sports besides making it to the pros?
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/224 "2020-09-29T22:52:36Z")
“Hot dogs!! Get yer hot dogs!!”
I’d say there’s some.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/225 "2020-09-29T23:00:51Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#):
>
> I would guess closer to 1 in 10,000? This depends on definitions - there are lower level professional teams with commensurate pay.
1 in 10,000 is probably a fair estimate. In the past, I’ve seen estimates that 1 out of 100 high school football players go on to play in college, and 1 out of 100 college football players go on to play in the NFL.
However, the “lower level professional leagues” are barely that right now. There really isn’t anything like a minor professional football league in North America right now, with the XFL, AAF, and AFL (arena football) all shutting down and going out of business in the past year and a half (the first two shutting down partway through their inaugural seasons). The Canadian Football League has also had many American players, who couldn’t quite make it in the NFL, but they, too, cancelled their 2020 season, and while they’re hoping to resume next year, I suspect that a number of the teams in that league are not in good shape financially.
Beyond those, there may be some even lower-level football leagues out there (either indoor or outdoor), but players in those leagues are often making very little, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they, too, are struggling to survive this year (since I think they largely rely on gate revenue to operate).
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### Author:  [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/226 "2020-09-29T23:21:45Z")
Sounds right for football. But baseball and hockey have much more extensive leagues, although I am not sure how “professional” playing for the AA Crapville Sparkles is or if you are paid more than your weight in chewing tobacco.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/227 "2020-09-29T23:30:07Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#):
>
> But baseball and hockey have much more extensive leagues, although I am not sure how “professional” playing for the AA Crapville Sparkles is or if you are paid more than your weight in chewing tobacco.
I’m not an expert on the minor leagues in either of those sports, but I do know that, in minor league baseball, many of the players are paid very little (probably even less than their weight in chewing tobacco 😉 ), to the point that it’s not uncommon for the teams (particularly in the lower leagues) to find local families who are willing to host (and feed) their players.
(Also, even before COVID, MLB was making moves to cut a number of their affiliated minor league teams, and those leagues didn’t play at all this year.)
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### Author:  [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/228 "2020-09-29T23:40:00Z")
You also hear of pretty good players going to Japan or starting for the Ravenna Quoth (How dreary) or the Cape Town Racers (Doo dah. Doo dah). There are other professional leagues.
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### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/229 "2020-09-30T06:58:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> I’m not an expert on the minor leagues in either of those sports, but I do know that, in minor league baseball, many of the players are paid very little (probably even less than their weight in chewing tobacco 😉 ), to the point that it’s not uncommon for the teams (particularly in the lower leagues) to find local families who are willing to host (and feed) their players.
Sounds about right. Our local baseball team is lower than the lowest of the low, league-wise, and a lot of people in town–myself included–know somebody who has hosted a baseball player (or two). In fact, the players will often get themselves part-time jobs to bolster their finances–you can imagine my surprise when I walked into my local sports bar to find that our team’s first baseman was tending the bar and pouring me a draft beer.
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### Author:  [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/230 "2020-09-30T10:27:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> “Hot dogs!! Get yer hot dogs!!”
> I’d say there’s some.
Yeah, yeah, very funny. You have any idea how much some of those vendors make selling food and drinks at pro sports events?
I pulled this off the web:
" Commissions **are** a variable rate, but **can** go as high as 15-20% of the item’s **cost** , and obviously tips **are** highly dependent on the fans. At typical rates, a commission on a single $10 **beer could** be as high as $1.50 or $2. Longtime Fenway Park **vendor** Jose Magrass says he **can earn** more than $500 in a single night."
Here is a [good article on the vendor “strategy”](https://www.npr.org/2016/05/20/478804569/ballpark-venders-need-hustle-and-a-clear-strategy). Very interesting on what sells on what certain nights and in what area.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/231 "2020-09-30T10:59:05Z")
Yeah, they always put on a show of camaraderie with the other team, a few handshakes or high-fives or whatever at the end of the game, but whenever anyone actually acts like they mean it, folks raise a stink. See, for instance, [Nykesha Sales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nykesha_Sales#UConn_scoring_record_controversy).
And we all know that, rules or no, fights still occasionally break out at games. Well, OK, fights occasionally break out in any human activity… but have you ever noticed that when it happens at a sporting event, it’s always one team versus the other? That’s definitely the tribalism at work.
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### Author:  [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/232 "2020-09-30T11:18:52Z")
I don’t know if Texas is the norm, here, but all our high school stadiums are carefully designed so that home team and away team don’t mingle: you can’t cross over, team busses drop off at different spots. The only place where you encounter the other schools is in line to buy tickets. You also can’t leave the game and come back, and you can’t loiter around the stadium. This is partially to stop kids from leaving to go get a drink or smoke a joint in the parking lot, but also to minimize chances for fights to develop.
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### Author:  [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/233 "2020-09-30T13:40:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Yeah, they always put on a show of camaraderie with the other team, a few handshakes or high-fives or whatever at the end of the game, but whenever anyone actually acts like they mean it, folks raise a stink. See, for instance, [Nykesha Sales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nykesha_Sales#UConn_scoring_record_controversy).
>
> And we all know that, rules or no, fights still occasionally break out at games. Well, OK, fights occasionally break out in any human activity… but have you ever noticed that when it happens at a sporting event, it’s always one team versus the other? That’s definitely the tribalism at work.
And I’ve got literally hundreds of anecdotes from my personal life of genuine, honest goodwill between opposing teams. I’ve also seen fights break out between players on the same team.
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### Author:  [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/234 "2020-09-30T14:16:39Z")
> [@Trom](#):
>
> Isn’t that the current system? I went to public high school, and extracurricular sports were 100% voluntary.
Depends on the school. In some, particularly smaller schools, there is VERY heavy pressure to “volunteer.”
I remember my 7th-grade year during basketball season, e.g: it was simply expected that we’d be part of the school team, which coincidentally practiced during our P.E. class and was coached by our P.E. teacher. Those of us too awkward, too unathletic or too uninterested to be “good team material” got to sit on the sidelines and watch; occasionally, Coach would look up, realize we were still there, and assign us to go run laps around the building or something. Play basketball against each other, much less the team members? Perish the thought–they needed to practice for the game, and they needed the whole court to do it. Planned program of instruction to encourage physical exercise or the love of movement? Hah–the team needed Coach’s constant supervision, and if you weren’t part of the team, you just didn’t merit Coach’s time.
Remember, this was 7th grade, so mostly 12-year-olds or so.
Crappy P.E. classes were part of the reason I’ve struggled as an adult to get adequate exercise, and have never developed any particular enthusiasm for any sport. I can’t blame it all on organized school sports, but the emphasis on sports and the sports team members to the exclusion of the non-athletes is not a negligible factor.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/236 "2020-09-30T17:04:40Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> kids need to learn how to compete
_Do_ they, though?
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/237 "2020-09-30T17:12:10Z")
> [@madsircool](#):
>
> Do you favor doing away with grading on the curve? Dating? Fashion?
Yes, grading itself is toxic.
Viewing dating as a competition is also toxic - not just then, but later it leads to everything bad about incels and PUAs.
I strongly favour school uniforms.
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### Author:  [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/238 "2020-09-30T17:31:32Z")
> [@Trom](#):
>
> > [@Chronos](#):
> >
> > Yeah, they always put on a show of camaraderie with the other team, a few handshakes or high-fives or whatever at the end of the game, but whenever anyone actually acts like they mean it, folks raise a stink. See, for instance, [Nykesha Sales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nykesha_Sales#UConn_scoring_record_controversy).
> >
> > And we all know that, rules or no, fights still occasionally break out at games. Well, OK, fights occasionally break out in any human activity… but have you ever noticed that when it happens at a sporting event, it’s always one team versus the other? That’s definitely the tribalism at work.
>
> And I’ve got literally hundreds of anecdotes from my personal life of genuine, honest goodwill between opposing teams. I’ve also seen fights break out between players on the same team
Famously, in 1989, when a fight broke out between the Mets’ Keith Hernandez and Darryl Strawberry when the team was taking their official photo.
On the other hand, there’s the story of [Sara Tucholsky, Mallory Holtman, and Liz Wallace](https://www.espn.com/college-sports/columns/story?columnist=hays_graham&id=3372631). TL;DR version: Western Oregon senior Tucholsky tore her ACL rounding first after hitting what turned out to be the only home run of her career, in a 2008 game against Holtman’s Central Washington team. Had her teammates given her any help, Tucholsky would have been called out for interference. But Holtman asked if she’d be out if the _other_ team helped. No rule against that. So Holtman and Wallace picked Tucholsky up and carried her around the diamond, letting her gently touch every base and end her career with a home run. A glorious display of sportswomanship and one of my favorite sports stories.
Which suggests that some people are kind and some people are assholes, and sports might not have that much to do with which is which.
Anecdote /= data, of course.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/239 "2020-09-30T17:53:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> _Do_ they, though?
Yes. They’re going to be in competition with other people/organizations for the rest of their lives. Every time they apply for a job or advance their career they are competing with others attempting to do the same. Odds are their employer, or their own company if they start their own business, will be in competition with others who provide similar products or services. Children need to learn how to be gracious winners and they need practice to cope with the disappointment that comes with losing.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/240 "2020-09-30T18:31:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Children need to learn how to be gracious winners and they need practice to cope with the disappointment that comes with losing.
This is true.
But it isn’t taught by concentrating on how important it is to win.
It certainly isn’t taught by preventing most of the students from being on the team, because if they’re on the team the school will lose games against other schools.
It certainly isn’t taught by lionizing the students who win games, and denigrating the ones who aren’t good at them.
And businesses don’t always compete with each other. Often they cooperate with each other, to the benefit of all of them. Wine trails, for example, are a huge business around here – and they’re created by the cooperation of multiple wineries, who realize that they’re all benefitted by the success of the others.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-us-high-schools-drop-sports/921037/241 "2020-09-30T21:13:36Z")
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Yes. They’re going to be in competition with other people/organizations for the rest of their lives.
A - they don’t _have_ to be; and
B - the kind of competition taught in school team sports is not the same kind of competition as in wider society, and uses different skillsets.
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Every time they apply for a job or advance their career they are competing with others attempting to do the same.
This is not necessarily the case. In fact, friendly networking has landed me way more jobs than competitive interviews every could. And I’ve never competed with anyone for a promotion.
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Odds are their employer, or their own company if they start their own business, will be in competition with others who provide similar products or services.
This is true - but the skills taught in competitive interschool team sports (and nowhere else in school) will not necessarily be the best help there.
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Children need to learn how to be gracious winners and they need practice to cope with the disappointment that comes with losing.
They can learn both of these from ordinary games and friendly intramurals, as opposed to competitive inter-school team sports.
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