# Should Vargas (self confessed illegal alien reporter) be deported or charged **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491 "2011-06-22T21:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/101 "2011-06-27T22:32:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if, the moment he turned 16, he bought himself an airline ticket to leave the country, he’d still be staying here for a few days while he was waiting for his flight. Wouldn’t he be committing a crime just by virtue of being here for those few days? Nope, legally people under 18 years of age do not accrue unlawful presence. I’ve seen mixed reports, though, on whether knowing false claims of U.S. immigration status (citizenship or permanent residence) are ever excusable by minors - most recent reports say not. I’ve never seen a case, though, on the point of whether unknowing false document presentation by a minor, as appears to have happened on Mr. Vargas’ initial (and as far as I know, only) entry to the U.S. is ever considered excusable. It looks like the lie on the I-9 may be the most unforgivable sin here, as far as immigration violations go; there’s no waiver for lying about U.S. citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/102 "2011-06-28T03:15:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Even if I grant that this is wrong – which I do not – this hypothetical differs materially from Vargas’, where he learned of the decpetion at 16 and continued to perpetuate it on his own for ten more years. You wouldn’t deport the person in the hypothetical I gave? ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/103 "2011-06-28T11:06:15Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Obligatory links: > He apparently has broken several state and federal laws over the course of his life. So should he be prosecuted or deported? Reality check- As long as we want a cheap underclass to provide cheap labor, we are going to have illegals. There’s a really quick way to ensure that we solve this problem. Run ICE like OSHA and the IRS. Put all the emphasis on the end user. Also set up a 1-800 line where employees can rat out their employers. If you are caught hiring an illegal alien, $10,000 fine. No excuses, no, ‘his paper looked fine’. No ‘the agency said he was okay’. If he’s illegal, and he’s working on your jobsite, you are responsible. If you are caught hiring one a SECOND time, $100,000 fine, and you are forced to put a sign in your window about what your crime was. Something like 'I was caught hiring illegal aliens, depriving an American of a decent wage. Please consider my lack of ethics when doing business with me." Third time, government takes everything you have an auctions it off. I doubt there will be many third time offenders. I suspect that people will actually do the background checks they should have been doing all along. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/104 "2011-06-28T13:13:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if, the moment he turned 16, he bought himself an airline ticket to leave the country, he’d still be staying here for a few days while he was waiting for his flight. Wouldn’t he be committing a crime just by virtue of being here for those few days? No. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/105 "2011-06-28T15:19:23Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > If you are caught hiring an illegal alien, $10,000 fine. No excuses, no, ‘his paper looked fine’. No ‘the agency said he was okay’. If he’s illegal, and he’s working on your jobsite, you are responsible. So you’re OK with companies discriminating against people who are legally authorized to work in the U.S., including permanent residents? That’s also illegal, and it happens all the time. Even at [well-known employers who one might think would have qualified HR people and would therefore know better.](http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/May/11-crt-705.html) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/106 "2011-06-28T20:54:20Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well,if you break a law, you are not 100% innocent of any crime, no matter what you say. I can’t see how Vargas or people can be held responsible for breaking this particular law. He was only 12, and his parents lied to him about his documents being legal. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/107 "2011-06-28T21:55:08Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well,if you break a law, you are not 100% innocent of any crime, no matter what you say. What if the law doesn’t establish what you did as a crime? > [@Chronos](#): > > Even if, the moment he turned 16, he bought himself an airline ticket to leave the country, he’d still be staying here for a few days while he was waiting for his flight. Wouldn’t he be committing a crime just by virtue of being here for those few days? No. Mere unlawful presence isn’t a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/108 "2011-06-28T21:56:24Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > What if the law doesn’t establish what you did as a crime? Then I guess he didn’t break the law. This is kind of circular. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/109 "2011-06-28T21:58:28Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Then I guess he didn’t break the law. This is kind of circular. “Breaking the law” and “committing a crime” are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/110 "2011-06-28T22:12:09Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > “Breaking the law” and “committing a crime” are not the same thing. Generally they are. But I’m sure that you will enlighten us as to the exceptions. Please go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/111 "2011-06-28T22:29:39Z")
I wouldn’t deport him because: he was a child when he came, he’s the ONLY member of his family who came illegally, he’s been a productive American since his arrival, he has no memories/ties to the Phillippines. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/112 "2011-06-28T22:30:51Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Exactly this. We should not deport him; we should abolish the immigration system. If I had my way, this is two-step analysis you would need to become an American citizen if you were not born to one or born in the United States: (1) Are you in the United States right now? (2) Do you want to be an American citizen? Congratulations, you’re a citizen! Is that how it works anywhere, in any country in the world? ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/113 "2011-06-28T22:37:23Z")
Does anyone in this thread actually think he should’ve thought on his 18th birthday: “Well, I’m here illegally, and now that I’m 18, I need to leave, returning to the country I have no memories of, no ties to.” ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/114 "2011-06-28T22:50:24Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Generally they are. But I’m sure that you will enlighten us as to the exceptions. Please go ahead. Well, for example, if you don’t use your turn signals properly before making a turn, you are breaking the law but nobody would consider that you have commited a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/115 "2011-06-28T23:12:16Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Generally they are. But I’m sure that you will enlighten us as to the exceptions. Please go ahead. Illegal presence in the country is an exception. It is not a crime to be in the country illegally. It is a civil violation. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/116 "2011-06-28T23:52:25Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Does anyone in this thread actually think he should’ve thought on his 18th birthday: “Well, I’m here illegally, and now that I’m 18, I need to leave, returning to the country I have no memories of, no ties to.” No, but he should have fessed up, explained the circumstances, gotten permission to be here, and lawfully earned his citizenship. Then he wouldn’t have had to announce to the world that he’s illegally here and how he essentially conned his way through adulthood. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/117 "2011-06-29T00:00:18Z")
**Airman** - That sounds reasonable, but I’m unsure how many reasonable people there are. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/118 "2011-06-29T00:11:51Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > What if the law doesn’t establish what you did as a crime? Who cares? The law **does** establish what he did as a crime. > [@](#): > > No. Mere unlawful presence isn’t a crime. Correct. And neither is misusing the word ‘there’ when you really mean ‘their.’ Neither is being a Cowboys fan. My examples have just as much relevance to this story as yours does, by the way, since Vargas’ crime was not simply unlawful presence. From the story: > [@Vargas in the NY Times](#): > > For more than a decade of getting part-time and full-time jobs, employers have rarely asked to check my original Social Security card. When they did, I showed the photocopied version, which they accepted. Over time, I also began checking the citizenship box on my federal I-9 employment eligibility forms. (Claiming full citizenship was actually easier than declaring permanent resident “green card” status, which would have required me to provide an alien registration number.) From the US Code, a felony: > [@18 USC § 911](#): > > Whoever falsely and willfully represents himself to be a citizen of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/119 "2011-06-29T00:14:47Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Does anyone in this thread actually think he should’ve thought on his 18th birthday: “Well, I’m here illegally, and now that I’m 18, I need to leave, returning to the country I have no memories of, no ties to.” Apparently his defenders need to make shit up. > [@Vargas](#): > > My mother wanted to give me a better life, so she sent me thousands of miles away to live with her parents in America — my grandfather (Lolo in Tagalog) and grandmother (Lola). He came here at age 12, and his mother is still in the Phillipines. So far from having no memories and no ties, he has both memories and ties. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/120 "2011-06-29T00:15:49Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Illegal presence in the country is an exception. It is not a crime to be in the country illegally. It is a civil violation. Yes. But checking the little box that says “I am a citizen” when you know you’re not? Crime. Felony, in fact. > [@suranyi](#): > > Well, for example, if you don’t use your turn signals properly before making a turn, you are breaking the law but nobody would consider that you have commited a crime. Yes. I’m sure that Vargas scrupulously used his turn signals while driving to his job that he committed a felony to obtain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491.md?page=7)