# Should Vargas (self confessed illegal alien reporter) be deported or charged **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491 "2011-06-22T21:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/121 "2011-06-29T00:16:45Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > No, but he should have fessed up, explained the circumstances, gotten permission to be here, and lawfully earned his citizenship. Then he wouldn’t have had to announce to the world that he’s illegally here and how he essentially conned his way through adulthood. That isn’t how it works though. Fessing up and explaining the circumstances gets you deported. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/122 "2011-06-29T00:20:21Z")
> [@treis](#): > > That isn’t how it works though. Fessing up and explaining the circumstances gets you deported. Right. Every time, under every circumstance, it gets you deported. Cite that it does? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/123 "2011-06-29T00:24:35Z")
Deport his ass. Sorry, but that’s the law. He’ll be just fine in the Philippines, and he can apply for a visa from there. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/124 "2011-06-29T00:27:37Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > So you’re OK with companies discriminating against people who are legally authorized to work in the U.S., including permanent residents? That’s also illegal, and it happens all the time. Even at [well-known employers who one might think would have qualified HR people and would therefore know better.](http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2011/May/11-crt-705.html) Well, frankly, when we have 20 million unemployed Americans, why are we still renewing or issuing work visas for foreign nationals? Strikes me we could open up 2 million positions for Americans a year simply by not issuing new ones and putting a very high standard on renewing current ones. Honestly, if you have an American and a foreign national applying for the same job, then the citizen should get the job, ALWAYS. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/125 "2011-06-29T00:34:55Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Well, frankly, when we have 20 million unemployed Americans, why are we still renewing or issuing work visas for foreign nationals? Strikes me we could open up 2 million positions for Americans a year simply by not issuing new ones and putting a very high standard on renewing current ones. > > Honestly, if you have an American and a foreign national applying for the same job, then the citizen should get the job, ALWAYS. You are, in all seriousness, saying that U.S. citizens should always get priority over everyone else, including others who are legally authorized to work in the U.S., and even lawful U.S. permanent residents, even ones who have lived in the U.S. for decades? I’m not even talking about people here on work visas tied to specific jobs/employers (that’s a whole separate discussion); I’m talking about people who are authorized to work for any employer, often indefinitely. If so, what you are proposing would require a complete overhaul of immigration and related labor laws. Sorry, I can’t see the point to that or get behind it. Actually, scratch that; no, I’m not sorry I can’t get behind that. Even non-citizens are often related to and/or providing financial support for citizens, aside from all the other considerations. As for work visas: do you seriously think that people are interchangeable? Each unemployed U.S. worker isn’t a direct substitute for someone here on a work visa. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/126 "2011-06-29T02:03:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Deport his ass. Sorry, but that’s the law. He’ll be just fine in the Philippines, and he can apply for a visa from there. Actually, under current law, he can’t. [False declarations of U.S. citizenship](http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006.html) are a permanent bar to receiving any kind of U.S. visa or green card. The only way out would be if he was simply never charged with a false claim to U.S. citizenship, but then that would be a matter of prosecutorial discretion. Applicable excerpt: "(ii) 9/ FALSELY CLAIMING CITIZENSHIP- (I) IN GENERAL- Any alien who falsely represents, or has falsely represented, himself or herself to be a citizen of the United States for any purpose or benefit under this Act (including section 274A ) or any other Federal or State law is inadmissible. " ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/127 "2011-06-29T03:16:48Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Right. Every time, under every circumstance, it gets you deported. Cite that it does? What do you want a cite for? The fact that he has admitted and confessed his illegal status, and is liable for deportation isn’t disputed, I assume? Even if you want to argue ICE discretion on the deportation front, there is no path towards citizenship or legal residence for illegal aliens. There is no process for someone admitting that they are an illegal alien to get “permission to be here, and lawfully earned his citizenship”? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/128 "2011-06-29T05:50:05Z")
> [@treis](#): > > What do you want a cite for? The fact that he has admitted and confessed his illegal status, and is liable for deportation isn’t disputed, I assume? > > Even if you want to argue ICE discretion on the deportation front, there is no path towards citizenship or legal residence for illegal aliens. There is no process for someone admitting that they are an illegal alien to get “permission to be here, and lawfully earned his citizenship”? As it should be. There are legal ways to come here. Yes, the system is screwed up and needs to be fixed, but for every illegal immigrant you give a path to citizenship, or legality, for, you make a chump out of a thousand people patiently trying to get here through the correct process. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/129 "2011-06-29T06:04:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > As it should be. There are legal ways to come here. Yes, the system is screwed up and needs to be fixed, but for every illegal immigrant you give a path to citizenship, or legality, for, you make a chump out of a thousand people patiently trying to get here through the correct process. What would you do with the kid in my hypothetical? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2011, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/130 "2011-06-29T06:27:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > What would you do with the kid in my hypothetical? Do you mean this one? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by treis > Unbeknownst to Steve Smith, his parents illegally immigrated with him from Turkmenistan when he was 2. John Smith, Steve’s father, worked as a humble gardener for a private family who did not adequately check his social security number. John Smith was in contact with the local branch of the Turkmenistanian mafia, and with his meager savings bought a legitimate copy of a birth certificate and SSN for a deceased new born baby who was born at the same time. With these fraudulent documents, Steve was enrolled in school. > > In school Steve Smith was of above average, but not exceptional intelligence. With hard work, and diligence he was able to graduate near the top of his class and earn a scholarship to a local University. At the University, he studied engineering, and managed to graduate with a decent GPA. He managed to land a job with a respected design firm, although as a ill paid entry level employee. Steve was satisfied, as he was able to live on his own, was getting serious with his girlfriend. After several years of gaining experience, he applied for his dream job with a big defense firm, and managed to land the position. During his background check for his security clearance, investigators discovered the fraud. When they confronted Steve’s parents, they admitted that Steve was born in Turkmenistan and confessed to the fraud. The next day, ICE agents came, arrested Steve, and deported him to Turkmenistan. If this is the hypothetical you’re talking about, I’d send him back to Turkmenistan, as he has no right to be here. I would point out that this is different than the situation with Vargas, as Steve did nothing wrong. The difference for me is that I’d make it easier for Steve to come back legally than Vargas. I’ll also add, that if I were Emperor of the U.S., I would entertain a handful of unusual situations like this and would consider demonstrating my great benevolence 2 or 3 times a year with a grant of amnesty. The key being the 2 to 3 times a year, as to not build an expectation that if you get your kid here and he has a good sob story we’ll allow you to, in essence subvert our laws. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/131 "2011-07-05T20:37:35Z")
If I were Emperor of the US, I’d void all immigration quotas in line with Amendment XIV, Section 1: > [@](#): > > All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Allowing a bureaucracy to impose arbitrary quotas on the number of persons allowed to be naturalized makes a mockery of the Constitution. Of course, so does declaring oneself Emperor, apparently, but it seems to have worked out for Joshua Norton. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/132 "2011-07-06T14:54:59Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If I were Emperor of the US, I’d void all immigration quotas in line with Amendment XIV, Section 1:Allowing a bureaucracy to impose arbitrary quotas on the number of persons allowed to be naturalized makes a mockery of the Constitution. > > Of course, so does declaring oneself Emperor, apparently, but it seems to have worked out for Joshua Norton. I can’t quite see what sentence or sentences in Section 1 are mocked by immigration quotas. Immigration quotas are completely consistent with the language of the Fourteenth Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/133 "2011-07-06T15:10:13Z")
If naturalization can be denied; if Congress can arbitrarily change the requirements of naturalization; it creates an end run around the intent of the Fourteenth Amendment. Letter of the law, but not the spirit, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/134 "2011-07-26T18:22:35Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If naturalization can be denied; if Congress can arbitrarily change the requirements of naturalization; it creates an end run around the intent of the Fourteenth Amendment. Letter of the law, but not the spirit, as it were. You think the spirit of the Fourteenth Amendment was to forbid all immigration quotas? The Fourteenth Amendment was ratified in 1868. But less than fifteen years later, the first Chinese exclusion act was passed. Many of the same legislators that voted for the Fourteenth Amendment also voted for the Chinese exlcusion law. That seems pretty powerful evidence that they didn’t agree. I can’t see how to make sense of your claim. The very existence of a naturalization process requires the setting of some conditions for its operation. The Fourteenth Amendment, by explicitly recognizing naturalization, recognized Congress’ power to control and manage it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/135 "2011-07-26T18:24:19Z")
Update on Vargas: Washington State has [revoked his license:](http://news.yahoo.com/wash-cancels-illegal-immigrant-reporters-license-195816712.html) > [@Associated Press](#): > > Department of Licensing spokeswoman Christine Anthony said Thursday that officials opened an investigation after Jose Antonio Vargas’ essay about his background was published in the New York Times Magazine in June. > > Vargas wrote in his essay that he emigrated from the Philippines in 1993 when he was 12 years old at the wish of his mother. He moved to California, where his grandparents had arranged forged documents for him. When he was 16, Vargas wrote, he found out that he was in the country illegally after he tried to obtain a driver’s permit with those documents. > > He said that he obtained a driver’s license in Washington earlier this year after his Oregon license expired. > > “We conducted in an investigation and concluded that he wasn’t residing at the address he provided us,” Anthony said. > > The Licensing Department sent Vargas a letter requesting proof of residency, and the letter was returned. The state canceled his license July 18. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/136 "2011-07-27T10:16:03Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > As it should be. There are legal ways to come here. Yes, the system is screwed up and needs to be fixed, but for every illegal immigrant you give a path to citizenship, or legality, for, you make a chump out of a thousand people patiently trying to get here through the correct process. I agree that the system needs to be fixed, but stating that “there are legal ways to come here” “through the correct process” ignores the fact that for _many_ people around the world, there is **no** legal path for immigrating to the US. What would you say to people who want to immigrant to the US for whom there is no possible way they can do so legally, through no fault of their own? The paths to immigration are: [ul][li]through a family member (Vargas wouldn’t have qualified as a child, since his grandparents were permanent residents, and so they couldn’t have sponsored his mother since she was married).[/li][li]through employment or investment (he might qualify now, as a Pulitzer winner, but he wouldn’t have qualified as a child; and had he remained in the Philippines as a child, it’s unlikely he would have become as highly qualified as he is now thanks to his US education)[/li][li]through Refugee or Asylum status (unlikely he would qualify, since the Philippines does not recognize same sex marriage and is not the most progressive country WRT LGBT, but it’s not likely he would be especially oppressed or threatened there)[/li][li]through the Diversity Immigrant Visa (aka Green Card Lottery), which those born in the Philippines are _not_ eligible for. (The countries which are ineligible are any which have sent more than 50,000 immigrants to the US in the last five years)[/ul][/li] I think something is fundamentally wrong with a system that insists that people from other countries should “wait their turn”, but then ignores that fact that for many, many people, _there is no turn_ to wait for. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/137 "2011-07-27T10:49:47Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Also relevant because one of the typical pathways towards citizenship (marriage) was barred for him. Meh, my uncle got married, had 2 kids and the last time I saw him voluntarily he was travelling around the country with a 19 year old kid [he was in his early 50s at the time] selling statues of Frodo in malls [or some stupid tchatchkes of the living room clutter type] and essentially living in the travel trailer. Marriage between a male and a female will _always_ be legal in the US. How palatable boinking in the marriage bed is to both parties is inessential. Beards can be found if you really try hard enough. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/138 "2011-07-27T11:26:13Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Marriage between a male and a female will _always_ be legal in the US. How palatable boinking in the marriage bed is to both parties is inessential. Beards can be found if you really try hard enough. I know [_Green Card_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Card_%28film%29)wasn’t a documentary, but I think the INS would frown on a fraudulent marriage for immigration purposes? I’m sure that those who are opposed to illegal immigrants wouldn’t be on board with arranging beards for all homosexual foreigners who want to get American citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/139 "2011-07-27T13:36:30Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > What would you say to people who want to immigrant to the US for whom there is no possible way they can do so legally, through no fault of their own? There is no possibly way I can legally sleep with Helen Hunt. But we accept that tragic loss because we recognize that not everyone in the world should have a legally enforceable right to demand and get sex with Helen Hunt. (Much, I would imagine, to her relief). Similarly, I say to the people you mention: not everyone in the world has a legally enforceable right to move to the United States. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491/140 "2011-07-27T15:05:30Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > I know [_Green Card_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Card_%28film%29)wasn’t a documentary, but I think the INS would frown on a fraudulent marriage for immigration purposes? I’m sure that those who are opposed to illegal immigrants wouldn’t be on board with arranging beards for all homosexual foreigners who want to get American citizenship. Just pointing out he can get married, sexual preferences are not a particular problem if one really really wants that green card. People have and do get married for all sorts of purposes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-vargas-self-confessed-illegal-alien-reporter-be-deported-or-charged/586491.md?page=8)