# Should we allow individuals to hold billions of dollars in their pockets? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614 "2019-01-29T11:30:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/161 "2019-01-31T19:22:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > BTW, the idea that there’s some significant number of “people who are working 80-hour weeks and can’t feed their kids” is laughable. That there are \*\*any \*\*is criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/162 "2019-01-31T19:27:11Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > That there are \*\*any \*\*is criminal. You want to arrest people for having too many kids? That’s harsh. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/163 "2019-01-31T19:32:07Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > That there are \*\*any \*\*is criminal. Are there any? Could you name a few? 0.2% of the US workforce works two jobs, IIRC - how many of those cannot feed their families? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/164 "2019-01-31T19:35:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Actually it makes a lot of sense. Since a factory can close here and open in China tomorrow or agricultural can be picked by illegal labor building a wage wall no longer works. Maybe if you can’t turn a profit without using illegal labor then maybe your company shouldn’t exist at all; or maybe it belongs in the hands of someone more competent. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/165 "2019-01-31T19:39:14Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You want to arrest people for having too many kids? That’s harsh. The “concept” that one could not afford to feed children despite working 80 hours is “criminal”, not the poor slob doing the work. But you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/166 "2019-01-31T19:42:37Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > The “concept” that one could not afford to feed children despite working 80 hours is “criminal”, not the poor slob doing the work. But you knew that. FWIW, I’m pretty sure he was joking. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/167 "2019-01-31T20:04:17Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > The “concept” that one could not afford to feed children despite working 80 hours is “criminal”, not the poor slob doing the work. But you knew that. The amount one needs to feed the kids is dependant on the number of kids. SNAP doesn’t even have a federal cap. Two adults and six kids? You can pull in over $50k/year and still be on food stamps. My decision to have a kid I know I can’t afford is not my employer’s problem, nor should it be. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/168 "2019-01-31T20:29:38Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > The amount one needs to feed the kids is dependant on the number of kids. SNAP doesn’t even have a federal cap. Two adults and six kids? You can pull in over $50k/year and still be on food stamps. My decision to have a kid I know I can’t afford is not my employer’s problem, nor should it be. Ok, so you’d like to see some sort of child-cost index such that you can only have as many children as your income allows vs the index. I guess the kid is euthanized if you go over the limit, or maybe the man/woman is sterilized when they reach the quota. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/169 "2019-01-31T20:30:21Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Taxes (that pay for police protection/military protection) should be viewed as an insurance. Ultra rich have a lot more to lose and ought to pay it; like the Lamborghini owner who pays a helluva lot more auto insurance than the Hyundai owner. Bezos and the rest of the rich can pay people to act as private security. They would likely do fine without the insurance of police/military protection. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/170 "2019-01-31T20:32:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Are there any? Could you name a few? 0.2% of the US workforce works two jobs, IIRC - how many of those cannot feed their families? > > Regards, > Shodan You know that’s 320,000 people right? You think those people are all working two jobs because they love to work? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/171 "2019-01-31T20:36:05Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Ok, so you’d like to see some sort of child-cost index such that you can only have as many children as your income allows vs the index. I guess the kid is euthanized if you go over the limit, or maybe the man/woman is sterilized when they reach the quota. You’re the one who thinks there’s something “criminal” about the situation. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/172 "2019-01-31T20:36:48Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Bezos and the rest of the rich can pay people to act as private security. They would likely do fine without the insurance of police/military protection. Get serious. An effective private fire/police/military/security force would cost more than those people already pay in taxes. If we were invaded those clowns would head for the hills and leave their rich masters in the lurch in a heartbeat. But we do have such things as economy of scale allowing us public fire/police and a standing army. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/173 "2019-01-31T20:37:24Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I think it makes zero sense for society to set the rules such that a corporation can make billions in profits per year while requiring society to pick up the tab for its lowest-paid workers. As a matter of _ **principle** _ I would disagree and side with the free marketeers here, with the caveat that workers should be allowed to organize for greater negotiating power. The workers are employed voluntarily; employer has no obligation to be charitable. Let society legislate subsidies and income transfers if it wants to ensure citizens have a basic standard of living. _ **However** _, free healthcare, free childcare and free subsistence is _not_ happening anytime soon in the U.S.A. For that reason, I support minimum wages and other constraints on employer behavior as the _only practicable way forward_ to address the problem of poverty-level wages. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/174 "2019-01-31T20:39:42Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > You know that’s 320,000 people right? You think those people are all working two jobs because they love to work? Those of us who bothered to check BLS data on the reasons for holding multiple jobs already know the answer. Those who haven’t are making arguments\* based on feels instead of facts and are not even qualified to participate in the conversation. \*Not that JAQing two questions qualifies as making an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/175 "2019-01-31T20:42:04Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’d certainly rather argue with you about it than with some of the less informed participants here. Add **septimus** to the list of people capable of making informed arguments on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/176 "2019-01-31T20:43:36Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Ok, so you’d like to see some sort of child-cost index such that you can only have as many children as your income allows vs the index. I guess the kid is euthanized if you go over the limit, or maybe the man/woman is sterilized when they reach the quota. No, but if I’m doing the same job as someone else, neither of us _deserves_ more pay because we happen to have a different number of children at home, or because his husband works and my wife doesn’t, or whatever. That stuff is none of my employer’s business, and what we’re paid for our jobs should be related to our performance, experience and skill sets. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/177 "2019-01-31T20:45:25Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Get serious. An effective private fire/police/military/security force would cost more than those people already pay in taxes. If we were invaded those clowns would head for the hills and leave their rich masters in the lurch in a heartbeat. > > But we do have such things as economy of scale allowing us public fire/police and a standing army. You guys do realize that the police and military are the mechanism by which governments exercise their monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force (one of those essential governmental functions)? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/178 "2019-01-31T20:47:18Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Look, what you said was utter nonsense. Taxation is an important aspect of a society with a functional government. Tax _avoidance_, shirking that duty to give back to the society that enabled you, is antisocial in the extreme. No, what you said is utter nonsense. Read the IRS on the matter. :rolleyes: > **[ws\_ans\_thm01\_les03.pdf](https://apps.irs.gov/app/understandingTaxes/whys/thm01/les03/media/ws_ans_thm01_les03.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/179 "2019-01-31T20:54:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > As a matter of _ **principle** _ I would disagree and side with the free marketeers here, with the caveat that workers should be allowed to organize for greater negotiating power. The workers are employed voluntarily; employer has no obligation to be charitable. Let society legislate subsidies and income transfers if it wants to ensure citizens have a basic standard of living. > > _ **However** _, free healthcare, free childcare and free subsistence is _not_ happening anytime soon in the U.S.A. For that reason, I support minimum wages and other constraints on employer behavior as the _only practicable way forward_ to address the problem of poverty-level wages. So why not push for the idea of higher taxes and a UBI or something? It’s far more productive and good strategically with regards to China than current counterproductive policy. When is China projected to surpass the US? It has to be soon. And it’s a result of our own dumb policies. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614/180 "2019-01-31T21:00:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Are there any? Could you name a few? 0.2% of the US workforce works two jobs, IIRC - how many of those cannot feed their families? Just so we have the numbers clear, it’s ~5% for two jobs at all (that could be 1 hour each), and ~0.2% for two full time jobs, defined as 35 h/week or more each. We don’t actually have data on 80 hours, be that one job, two, or twelve, other than that people who work more per week tend to be higher earners. Those numbers of course fluxuate month to month and are currently historically low. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-allow-individuals-to-hold-billions-of-dollars-in-their-pockets/828614.md?page=10)