# Should we attack Iran? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2012, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775 "2012-09-15T07:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/161 "2012-09-19T07:13:49Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This is why I’m very reluctant to participate in these threads. This sort of thing happens time and time again. > > At very least, there really is a difference between a Hijab and a Chador; but when the thread descends as far as this, it’s beyond any meaningful hope. And we thought it was funny when it depended on what one’s definition of “is” is! > > (What’s sad? This thread is so mired in this linguistic cesspool, I can’t even tell whom I agree with! The real issues have been so many times obscured, I honestly can’t tell if I agree with you or not!) Which is precisely the goal of the tactic of obfuscation. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/162 "2012-09-19T11:52:02Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This is like bizzaro world. It must seem that way to you, I’m sure. Just like people who are wilfully ignorant would be baffled by how you could condone something by merely looking the other way. I did my best to help you learn and even set up a nice logical progression with several clear questions. Naturally you ignored them. I’m sorry but if you refuse to analyze the issue logically, I really can’t help you learn. You just go on thinking that the 9/11 Commission Report’s authors deliberately added a piece to the report saying they tried but failed to corroborate information, and then decided to include it anyways. And that two groups of multiple people are one single guy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/163 "2012-09-19T13:48:57Z")
All right. If you folks have gotten your bile out of your systems for the week, maybe this thread can move on. THERE WILL BE NO MORE COMMENTS ABOUT ANY OTHER POSTER’S LOGIC OR PRESENTATION OR WHAT THEY “REALLY” MEANT. If you believe you have a fact that contradicts an assertion, simply quote the assertion and post the fact, (with, if possible, a citation). Do not make any comments on the “error” of your opponent. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/164 "2012-09-19T14:26:28Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It must seem that way to you, I’m sure. Just like people who are wilfully ignorant would be baffled by how you could condone something by merely looking the other way. I did my best to help you learn and even set up a nice logical progression with several clear questions. Naturally you ignored them. I’m sorry but if you refuse to analyze the issue logically, I really can’t help you learn. You just go on thinking that the 9/11 Commission Report’s authors deliberately added a piece to the report saying they tried but failed to corroborate information, and then decided to include it anyways. > > And that two groups of multiple people are one single guy. Aw man. One missing letter can send you off on a multipage screed, but simple direct question doesn’t even warrant three letters from you? How very disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/165 "2012-09-19T14:32:32Z")
ENOUGH! **Treis** , your next crack like that will earn you a Warning. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/166 "2012-09-19T15:29:47Z")
From what I’ve read, ahmadinejad’s support from his parliament and the supreme leader is crumbling…So can anyone address this point for me: **Is Ahmadinejad, basically, the only person who wants nukes in Iran?** ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/167 "2012-09-19T16:19:31Z")
Looks like a major operation went down in Iran against their nuclear facilities: > **[Who’s Sabotaging Iran’s Nukes?](https://news.yahoo.com/sabotaging-iran-nukes-084500157--politics.html)** > > Tehran says power lines to two nuclear facilities were blown up. Has the West’s stealth war on Iran’s nukes expanded to attacks on civilian infrastructure? Eli Lake reports. I’m pretty tickled by all this, because it’s attacking Iran’s nuke sites using the same methods they use to attack our interests. Turnabout is fair play. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/168 "2012-09-19T16:34:16Z")
> [@Oedipus](#): > > **Is Ahmadinejad, basically, the only person who wants nukes in Iran?** If that were the case, there would be no nuclear program. > [@adaher](#): > > Looks like a major operation went down in Iran against their nuclear facilities: The article asks if this power line operation means if U.S. Special Forces are already inside Iran. Wouldn’t it be stupid if they weren’t already there? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/169 "2012-09-19T16:53:45Z")
> [@Oedipus](#): > > From what I’ve read, ahmadinejad’s support from his parliament and the supreme leader is crumbling…So can anyone address this point for me: > > **Is Ahmadinejad, basically, the only person who wants nukes in Iran?** Ahmadinejad serves at the pleasure of the Ayatollah and the Council of Guardians. He has no real power that they do not grant him. I suspect that he is currently useful to them as a lightning rod for criticism with his outlandish claims and boorish behavior, (diverting attention from the real power), and I am sure that he is allowed to perform his executive day-to-day functions without interfernce. However, long range planning and policy is almost certainly handed to him to pronounce, rather than something in which he engages. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/170 "2012-09-19T17:03:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > …The article asks if this power line operation means if U.S. Special Forces are already inside Iran. Wouldn’t it be stupid if they weren’t already there? Is it then fair to assume you’d have no problem knowing that Iranian special forces were operating inside the US? Or would you consider that an act of war? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/171 "2012-09-19T17:06:56Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Is it then fair to assume you’d have no problem knowing that Iranian special forces were operating inside the US? I assume they probably are operating inside the U.S., although I don’t think they’ll be able to stop the U.S. nuclear program. I don’t want to see a war with Iran and I’ve said so in many discussions of this issue, but I also don’t want Iran to obtain nuclear weapons for a wide variety of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/172 "2012-09-19T17:12:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Looks like a major operation went down in Iran against their nuclear facilities: > > [Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](http://news.yahoo.com/sabotaging-iran-nukes-084500157--politics.html) > > I’m pretty tickled by all this, because it’s attacking Iran’s nuke sites using the same methods they use to attack our interests. Turnabout is fair play. This doesn’t pass the basic smell test. We’d send ground troops ~300 miles into Iran just to blow up some power lines? That seems to be an extraordinary risk for a pretty small reward. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/173 "2012-09-19T17:17:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I assume they probably are operating inside the U.S., although I don’t think they’ll be able to stop the U.S. nuclear program. 😃 > [@](#): > > …I don’t want to see a war with Iran and I’ve said so in many discussions of this issue, but I also don’t want Iran to obtain nuclear weapons for a wide variety of reasons. Would you be willing to vote in favor of a hypothetical attack on Iran in order to stop them from having nuclear weapons…with the ensuing (harrowing) consequences it is likely to bring? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/174 "2012-09-19T17:20:46Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Would you be willing to vote in favor of a hypothetical attack on Iran…with the ensuing consequences it is likely to bring? Probably not, but what circumstances are you imagining around this vote? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/175 "2012-09-19T17:42:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Probably not, but what circumstances are you imagining around this vote? Not sure I understand your question – it can be taken two ways. As in what would _lead_ to such a vote or the circumstances _resulting_ from such a vote. Which way should I be parsing it in order to respond? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/176 "2012-09-19T17:47:20Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Not sure I understand your question – it can be taken two ways. As in what would _lead_ to such a vote or the circumstances _resulting_ from such a vote. When and why am I being asked to vote? What are the circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/177 "2012-09-19T18:04:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > When and why am I being asked to vote? What are the circumstances? Oh, OK. It was really a hypothetical. In actual fact you obviously wouldn’t be (asked to vote). So it’s more in the sense of backing such an attack if and when the US Gov determines it (Iran) has reached a ‘point of no return’ vis-a-vis making a nuclear weapon. As for the possible (and more than likely) consequences of such an attack, surely you can think of many beyond the “mere” blood & treasure – which would both be huge. Simply closing The Strait of Hormuz would have repercussions beyond belief, likely including the final collapse of the Euro. Many more we can talk about if you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/178 "2012-09-19T18:51:03Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This doesn’t pass the basic smell test. A centrifuge is a essentially a hollow cylinder spinner at massive speed. Abrupt, significant acceleration can break machinery, and pretty much anything else. Or, as stated explicitly in the cite you are challenging: > [@](#): > > “It should be recalled that power cut off is one of the ways to break down centrifuge machines,” > […] > Whether a cutoff in the power supply is successful depends on whether the nuclear facility has a backup power supply. Robert Avagyan, a research analyst at the Institute for Science and International Security, said, “If a cutoff of power is aimed at the centrifuges, it would be aimed at slowing down the centrifuge. Sudden changes of spinning speed can cause severe damage to the centrifuge. But this kind of attack would not be effective if there was a backup power source that prevents such a power cutoff.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/179 "2012-09-19T18:56:31Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > As for the possible (and more than likely) consequences of such an attack, surely you can think of many beyond the “mere” blood & treasure – which would both be huge. Simply closing The Strait of Hormuz would have repercussions beyond belief, likely including the final collapse of the Euro. Many more we can talk about if you’d like. I’m still not sure why you think I asked for a list of consequences. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775/180 "2012-09-19T19:11:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m still not sure why you think I asked for a list of consequences. You didn’t. I lost control of my fingers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-attack-iran/634775.md?page=10)