# Should we ban the ideology of Nazism/White Supremacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578 "2017-08-13T20:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/21 "2017-08-13T21:24:29Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Really? That’s where you went with that? Do you have anything of substance to add or a point you want to refute? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/22 "2017-08-13T21:25:13Z")
No. Doing so entails giving the government the power to do so, and there is no principled restraint on such power. It would be used, far more often, to ban people struggling for things that threaten established power. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/23 "2017-08-13T21:36:02Z")
In 1966, Playboy magazine published an interview with George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party. It caused a bit of a scandal for a brief while that Playboy would publish the interview, few took Rockwell seriously and in a very short while Rockwell and the whole incident evaporated from the public’s consciousness. Why? Because people didn’t make a big deal about it. The more that SJWs attack these guys and the more furious their calls that these people be attacked and excoriated and banned, the more publicity the bad guys get and the more that people are drawn to their ranks…not the least of which are those not necessarily Nazi in their beliefs but are pissed off at the forces of the left constantly trying to dictate how everyone else should think and behave, and they see a way of fighting back in the most obnoxious way possible. It’s a mistake to take the view that allowing the Nazis or any other objectionable group to hold demonstrations is the same as ‘welcoming’ it, as I’ve seen stated in another thread. Communists over the last century have killed far more people than Nazism and yet on those occasions in the past when they congregated everyone pretty much ignored them and as a result they currently wield little power or influence. All you do by trying to drive them out of existence is to increase their passion and their numbers. Sooner or later the left is going to have to come to the realization that excoriating and attacking everyone they disapprove of is not only counter-productive but self-defeating. It’s the reason we now have Republicans controlling Congress, the White House, the Supreme Court and most state governorships. I hear many on the left stating their intention to not only keep up the rabble-rousing but to intensify it, and to that I can only say good luck with that. I hope they’ll enjoy that oh, so satisfying sense of self-righteousness and indignation while being governed more or less permanently by the opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/24 "2017-08-13T21:41:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In 1966, Playboy magazine published an interview with George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party. It caused a bit of a scandal for a brief while that Playboy would publish the interview, few took Rockwell seriously and in a very short while Rockwell and the whole incident evaporated from the public’s consciousness. Why? Because people didn’t make a big deal about it. The more that SJWs attack these guys and the more furious their calls that these people be attacked and excoriated and banned, the more publicity the bad guys get and the more that people are drawn to their ranks…not the least of which are those not necessarily Nazi in their beliefs but are pissed off at the forces of the left constantly trying to dictate how everyone else should think and behave, and they see a way of fighting back in the most obnoxious way possible. > > It’s a mistake to take the view that allowing the Nazis or any other objectionable group to hold demonstrations is the same as ‘welcoming’ it, as I’ve seen stated in another thread. Communists over the last century have killed far more people than Nazism and yet on those occasions in the past when they congregated everyone pretty much ignored them and as a result they currently wield little power or influence. All you do by trying to drive them out of existence is to increase their passion and their numbers. > > Sooner or later the left is going to have to come to the realization that excoriating and attacking everyone they disapprove of is not only counter-productive but self-defeating. It’s the reason we now have Republicans controlling Congress, the White House, the Supreme Court and most state governorships. > > I hear many on the left stating their intention to not only keep up the rabble-rousing but to intensify it, and to that I can only say good luck with that. I hope they’ll enjoy that oh, so satisfying sense of self-righteousness and indignation while being governed more or less permanently by the opposition. Aren’t you a member of that same opposition? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/25 "2017-08-13T21:44:56Z")
Yes, but I still recognize the danger inherent in one party being in permanent control of every aspect of government. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/26 "2017-08-13T21:50:49Z")
After we’re done banning Nazism … can we go after pink house paint next? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/27 "2017-08-13T21:54:23Z")
The best we can hope for is leadership that condemns Nazism/White Supremacy in no uncertain terms. Unfortunately, we’ll have to wait awhile for that. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/28 "2017-08-13T21:57:02Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Ban? No. > > Harry, harass, scorn, ridicule, shame, fire, shun, excoriate, exile, piss on? Sure. Yup. Censorship sucks, and can all too easily be extended to stifle speech we, ourselves, might want to express. Also, who do you want to trust with that kind of power? Right now, Jeff Sessions would be in charge. Do you want him holding the imprimatur stamp? “Climate change” would be defined as hate speech! ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/29 "2017-08-13T21:59:35Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The best we can hope for is leadership that condemns Nazism/White Supremacy in no uncertain terms. Unfortunately, we’ll have to wait awhile for that. Not to side-track the thread, but it’s hard to gauge how the fallout from this episode will affect Trump. He’s been so obsequiously tone-deaf in dealing with the white-nationalist wing of the right that I can see this having no effect on his approval rating. Sadly, people have come to expect nothing better of him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/30 "2017-08-13T22:22:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No. Just like you don’t ban a religion because radicals flew a plane into some buildings. Are you arguing that the reason we shouldn’t ban Nazism is because it’s unfair to hold all Nazis responsible for the actions of a few bad Nazis? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/31 "2017-08-13T22:26:42Z")
Chalk me up as a “no” vote as well. Criticize, counter-protest, shun, or mock all you like, but asking the government to ban things you do not like will end badly for you when people you do not like are in charge of the levers of government. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/32 "2017-08-13T22:30:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Hector\_St\_Clare** : > > Legally we aren’t allowed to in this country, but it’s certainly not logically impossible to ban an ideology. No, we can ban the expression of an ideology, but there is no way to ban the ideology itself. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/33 "2017-08-13T22:41:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sooner or later the left is going to have to come to the realization that excoriating and attacking everyone they disapprove of is not only counter-productive but self-defeating. It’s the reason we now have Republicans controlling Congress, the White House, the Supreme Court and most state governorships. But it is fine for the Right to do the same thing, of course. The Republican control of the government has at least as much to do with a significant portion of the population paying attention to Fox News as it engaged in “excoriating and attacking everyone they disapprove of,” (and often, if not mostly, lying about the actual statements from the Left when they did). The folks of the Left who have engaged in that behavior make up a fairly small portion of the population of the Left. Similarly, folks on the Right who have engaged in that behavior are probably not a majority, there, either. However, the folks on the Right have had the mouthpieces of Fox as well as Limbaugh, to say nothing of Robertson, Falwell, Graham, (the younger), Dobson, etc., through hate promoting groups such as Focus on the Family, The Family Research Council, etc. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/34 "2017-08-13T22:51:17Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Others might suggest that, due to their nature, Nazism and white supremacy are not just “bad ideas,” but rather ideas that fundamentally espouse violence toward others. And when they actually incite or engage in violence, they may be prosecuted. Outlawing a group because society currently disapproves of its message has been tried on multiple occasions in the U.S. and, while harming citizens, it has never resulted in an improvement to society. (Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798, the Espionage Act of 1917, the Sedition Act of 1918, and various efforts to outlaw or restrict “communism” (variously defined).) Proposing the repeat of failed policies makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/35 "2017-08-13T23:25:49Z")
This question is one that’s come up a lot. Honestly, I can’t blame actual Jews and minorities for being afraid for their lives and being offended at being told that their feelings of safety are less important than a general nebulous “right” (which also comes up in health care debates). On the other hand, there is a slippery slope to consider. Obviously, those who want Nazi and white supremacy ideology stamped out legally aren’t worried about that. Why not, those who believe that way? Is Germany closer to tyranny than the United States simply because it has anti Nazi laws? Those arguing on free speech grounds, are you saying that Nazi and white supremacy ideology does not inherently cause any harm when expressed publicly? If not, then why SHOULDN’T the law go after it? Another thought: I think the face of this debate might be very different if there were a sense by minorities that those in power in government and the justice system actually cared about them, or were at the very least not racist themselves. But as we’ve seen from the debates about everything from police brutality to Flint, a great many do NOT feel that way, which I’m sure affects their point of view on this particular question significantly. I have a theory that, to them, the worst of the slippery slope fears have ALREADY happened, against them, so they have nothing to fear from it. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/36 "2017-08-13T23:29:25Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Also, who do you want to trust with that kind of power? Right now, Jeff Sessions would be in charge. Do you want him holding the imprimatur stamp? “Climate change” would be defined as hate speech! Yep. If someone figures out a Constitutional way to ban Nazi/White Supremacy in the US, everything from Black Lives Matter to atheism and probably Planned Parenthood will be absolutely obliterated as well. And guess what? People will still be racist as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/37 "2017-08-13T23:50:05Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Yep. If someone figures out a Constitutional way to ban Nazi/White Supremacy in the US, everything from Black Lives Matter to atheism and probably Planned Parenthood will be absolutely obliterated as well. > > And guess what? People will still be racist as fuck. Hypothetical counter argument based on my musings from my previous post: that future is not that much worse than what we have now. Peaceful BLM protest is already met with state sanctioned violence and media fueled contempt. The so called hypothetical future you posit IS ALREADY HERE. Governments are already poisoning the water and shooting unarmed kids, so shove your fearmongering meant to silence us and allow you to stand by doing nothing while others, supported by powerful government figures, advocate our murder. This is what I meant when I said that I think this argument would be going very differently if there was a general sense out there that the powers that be were actually doing something, or at least caring. When one feels under siege now, it’s hard to take arguments that the status quo is fine for fear of being under siege somewhat worse in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/38 "2017-08-14T00:56:47Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No. The idea of “Thought police” is antithetical to the First Amendment, and, IMO, to any civilized society. Odd. This is one of the very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very few times I have ever agreed with D’Anconia on _anything_. We should not ban thought or speech. Only harmful actions. That said - anytime these dingbats want to “rally” be sure to have lots of riot police on hand and ready to go. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/39 "2017-08-14T01:08:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That said - anytime these dingbats want to “rally” be sure to have lots of riot police on hand and ready to go. Does your stance apply equally to the “counter-protestors”? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/40 "2017-08-14T01:14:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, we can ban the expression of an ideology, but there is no way to ban the ideology itself. I disagree. People’s beliefs are highly malleable and largely conditioned by what they think they’re ‘allowed’ to belief. You won’t influence the hard core believers but you’ll influence marginal people. As for Nazi bans being incompatible with civilized society, most European countries ban holocaust denial and related speech: here’s a partial map though they’re missing some countries. > **[Legality of Holocaust denial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial)** > > Between 1941 and 1945, the government of Nazi Germany perpetrated the Holocaust: a large-scale industrialised genocide in which approximately six million Jews were systematically murdered throughout German-occupied Europe. Since World War II, several countries have criminalised Holocaust denial—the assertion by antisemites that the genocide was fabricated or has been exaggerated. Currently, 17 European countries,\[a\] along with Israel and Canada, have laws in place that cover Holocaust denia... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578.md?page=3)