# Should we ban the ideology of Nazism/White Supremacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578 "2017-08-13T20:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/61 "2017-08-14T09:27:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …because a counter-protest at a different site quarter-mile down the road is a wonderful idea… Actually it’s a great idea. Prevents these knuckleheads from starting a brawl. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/62 "2017-08-14T09:53:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Actually it’s a great idea. Prevents these knuckleheads from starting a brawl. Better yet, have it in a different state, amIright?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/63 "2017-08-14T11:29:19Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > …that they should go extinct. > > Can you deny this? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/64 "2017-08-14T11:40:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Better yet, have it in a different state, amIright?:rolleyes: 50 yards or meters would be a fair compromise. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/65 "2017-08-14T11:47:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > 50 yards or meters would be a fair compromise. That’s a lot less than a quarter-mile…but only 3 seconds by Dodge Charger. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/66 "2017-08-14T11:58:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s a lot less than a quarter-mile…but only 3 seconds by Dodge Charger. 5 yards is within range of bike locks and chains. So what do you suggest? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/67 "2017-08-14T13:02:22Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > In America, that isn’t going to happen, because Nazism is (still) much more objectionable to the median voter and the median legislator than Islam is. If Nazism is so much more objectionable, then clearly Nazism gaining power isn’t going to happen, so banning it is not needed. If it is going to get more power, and the ban serves a purpose, setting the precedent that people in power can ban Judaism or Islam is probably a bad idea, held back only by ‘well, this one was more objectionable’ probably isn’t a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/68 "2017-08-14T13:17:45Z")
You can’t legislate away a neo-nazi ideology. But you can legislate to prohibit public displays of neo-nazi ideology. So white supremacists, or other hate groups, applying for a marching permit will not be granted such a permit. As for showing up like a para-military LARPer to a public protest with improvised weapons, that too can/should be legislated against. Doubly so if you’re showing up armed with a fire arm or knife or various tactical weapons. Tougher to enforce improvised weapons like sign poles or bike locks. But if cops see you using these to assault others, then you are subject to arrest and being charged with armed assault. Won’t be 100% effective in a large demonstration but authorities can do their best to effectively enforce these laws. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/69 "2017-08-14T13:27:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You can’t legislate away a neo-nazi ideology. But you can legislate to prohibit public displays of neo-nazi ideology. So white supremacists, or other hate groups, applying for a marching permit will not be granted such a permit. > > As for showing up like a para-military LARPer to a public protest with improvised weapons, that too can/should be legislated against. Doubly so if you’re showing up armed with a fire arm or knife or various tactical weapons. Tougher to enforce improvised weapons like sign poles or bike locks. But if cops see you using these to assault others, then you are subject to arrest and being charged with armed assault. Won’t be 100% effective in a large demonstration but authorities can do their best to effectively enforce these laws. In the US you can’t legislate away displays of political symbols. And even if you could, it takes 5 minutes in MS Paint to make a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/70 "2017-08-14T13:31:22Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I dunno, why don’t we ask Germans why they’re not afraid of that? Ask a German what? Let me ask the US American this: Why do you with all your free speech ban nude images and tits from public TV and words like “cunt” & “fuck” from public radio? Since to a German, this makes NO sense at all and looks to me (a German) pretty much like censorship. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/71 "2017-08-14T13:37:06Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Ask a German what? > > Let me ask the US American this: Why do you with all your free speech ban nude images and tits from public TV and words like “cunt” & “fuck” from public radio? > Since to a German, this makes NO sense at all and looks to me (a German) pretty much like censorship. That’s a good question. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/72 "2017-08-14T13:39:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In the US you can’t legislate away displays of political symbols. And even if you could, it takes 5 minutes in MS Paint to make a new one. I said nothing about graphic symbols. Let’s focus on what’s actually being discussed. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/73 "2017-08-14T13:48:05Z")
I’ve been thinking on this, and I would probably be okay with a codicil to the First Amendment (through the normal Amendment process) banning speech which advocates for the extermination or mass deportation of any racial or religious group. The reasoning being that such speech dehumanizes and devalues your fellow citizens to such a degree that imminent violence is a likely and foreseeable consequence. The logic here is similar to the “shouting fire in a crowded theater” exception. “Kill all the \_\_\_\_!” is not an idea. It is not a debatable proposition. It has no value in our society, and only serves to destabilize. If it were written carefully and had to go through the ratification process, I don’t see this causing much of a slippery slope problem. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/74 "2017-08-14T13:50:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That doesn’t make sense though. > > If party A has a permit to be at a given location and applies for that permit first don’t you think that party B applying for a permit afterwards for the same time and place is actually choosing the confrontation? > > Party B could have chosen any other place in the world to show up. But they didn’t. They wanted a fight. Party A has a permit to do what exactly - peacefully protest immigration reform? Or something else? The kinds of ideas that the white male supremacists made obvious is impossible to ignore and difficult to show restraint toward. They’re not just antiseptic thoughts; they ideas themselves are aggressive and hostile toward anyone who is not white, and probably even many of us who are. Party B may have a legal duty to refrain from violence but they have a moral obligation to confront and condemn that language in the strongest possible terms. Violent conflict might not be right but it’s inevitable in that situation, which is why more intelligent and advanced democracies don’t tolerate this kind of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/75 "2017-08-14T14:11:13Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I’ve been thinking on this, and I would probably be okay with a codicil to the First Amendment (through the normal Amendment process) banning speech which advocates for the extermination or mass deportation of any racial or religious group. Such a prohibition would not have banned any of the individuals in Charlottesville from speaking and marching, as they did not advocate for the extermination or mass deportation of any racial or religious group. Of course, if you expand the definitions of those terms a bit and allow for what they imply, you probably could capture them. But then you’ll also have captured Donald Trump, who advocates for mass deportation of Latinos. This isn’t just me being pedantic. This is the fundamental problem. You either draw lines that are too narrow to be meaningful or too broad to be targeted against only Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/76 "2017-08-14T14:21:33Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Party A has a permit to do what exactly - peacefully protest immigration reform? Or something else? Let’s assume it’s to engage in vile and hateful rhetoric, to advocate for the re-introduction of slavery, and support for the idea of making Trump dictator for life. Party A has the right under the Constitution to do all those things, and to be given equal protection of the laws against being subjected to violent attack. So does Party B. > [@](#): > > The kinds of ideas that the white male supremacists made obvious is impossible to ignore and difficult to show restraint toward. They’re not just antiseptic thoughts; they ideas themselves are aggressive and hostile toward anyone who is not white, and probably even many of us who are. Yes, they are. White male supremacists have the right under the Constitution to advocate those ideas, and to be given equal protection of the laws against being subjected to violent attack. > [@](#): > > Violent conflict might not be right but it’s inevitable in that situation, which is why more intelligent and advanced democracies don’t tolerate this kind of shit. Any group or individual who initiates violence against any group or individual exercising their rights under the Constitution should be arrested and sanctioned. Any leftist who cannot prevent himself from attacking Nazis had better not attend rallies against Nazis. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/77 "2017-08-14T14:36:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Let’s assume it’s to engage in vile and hateful rhetoric, to advocate for the re-introduction of slavery, and support for the idea of making Trump dictator for life. Party A has the right under the Constitution to do all those things, and to be given equal protection of the laws against being subjected to violent attack. So does Party B. > Yes, they are. White male supremacists have the right under the Constitution to advocate those ideas, and to be given equal protection of the laws against being subjected to violent attack. > Any group or individual who initiates violence against any group or individual exercising their rights under the Constitution should be arrested and sanctioned. Any leftist who cannot prevent himself from attacking Nazis had better not attend rallies against Nazis. > > Regards, > Shodan Demonstrate by example from history when hate groups pursued their agenda/ideology by exclusively (even primarily) peaceful rhetoric/means. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/78 "2017-08-14T14:43:17Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > My best theory as to why the alt right show up to protests armed: to intimidate minorities and to emphasize that they are willing to kill for their vision of a white-dominant nation. > > My best theory as to why leftists show up to protests armed: to protect themselves from those mentioned above, and to show that they are not intimidated by said acts. > > Am I incorrect? If not, I think that puts a bit of context in lacking in the simple phrase “both sides do it.” That is a pretty amazing example of confirmation bias if you’re not kidding, but maybe you’re not. The side that comes armed and looking for a fight that you dislike more is showing up to intimidate, the side you like (or dislike less) that comes armed and looking for a fight is just defending itself. OK, sure. 🙂 The part about minorities isn’t directly relevant to the question of who promotes general brawling at polarized political rallies lately in the US, and separately from the murder committed with a car in this case\*. The leftists looking for trouble have more acceptable racial views IMO, if I were forced to choose between them and white supremacists on that issue, but the WS’s were there to cause trouble with leftists, not particularly to attack minorities by any evidence I know. The video clips in media seemed to be predominantly whites fighting one another. And violent leftists in various protests (Seattle, Berkeley etc) have been there to fight, not particularly to defend minorities being physically attacked. And in some of those other cases not even to fight actual white supremacists either, just people they target as ‘extreme right’, or sometimes just to fight the cops. This didn’t all start last Saturday. \*AFAIK one person did that not everyone there on his ‘side’, just as radical leftist groups as a whole didn’t open fire on the Congressmen at the baseball practice. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/79 "2017-08-14T14:46:51Z")
You’re twisting yourself in pretzels to avoid an obvious truth: The KKK’s avowed mission is to kill and torture black people. The BLM’s avowed mission is for black people not to get killed and tortured. Even if both sides used the same tactics at protests, the “many sides” response is wildly misguided. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578/80 "2017-08-14T14:46:52Z")
What relevance does that have? Do you believe that Nazis have the right under the Constitution to advocate for vile and hateful ideas? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-ban-the-ideology-of-nazism-white-supremacy/793578.md?page=5)