# Should we be working harder to educate the Muslim world about free speech? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714 "2012-09-14T19:09:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/81 "2012-09-15T03:07:35Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > I’m surprised by the idea that “we” should teach 'them" how to be less offended by the things we do that offend them. > > Try turning that around and see how it fits. Instead of saying Americans get to do this stuff so you shouldn’t be offended, how about getting used to the idea that this kind of free speech has real consequences including the deaths of innocent people. Then maybe we can focus those educational energies on teaching Americans to stop blindly hating Muslims. There is no turning around free speech to see how it fits. It fits just fine. It goes hand in hand with freedom to mind your own fucking business. Nobody shoved this movie up anybody’s ass. Those who got upset over this went out of their way to avail themselves of the material and then used it to foment blind hate toward other people. There is an infinite amount of blasphemous material on the internet. There is zero chance of making it go away so the idea of teaching Americans or anybody else to suck it up because of a bunch of lunatics is both intellectually and morally bankrupt. It’s as mindless an idea as Obama thinking his presidency would ease Muslim hostility. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/82 "2012-09-15T03:17:18Z")
> [@moonshot925](#): > > I’m glad we are killing people with our drones. > > If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting. Hardly. And we aren’t killing people for fighting, just for being near someone who we think might or might not be someone don’t like. If someone was bombing American cities more or less randomly, do you really think we’d just roll over and play dead? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/83 "2012-09-15T03:29:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly. And we aren’t killing people for fighting, just for being near someone who we think might or might not be someone don’t like. > > If someone was bombing American cities more or less randomly, do you really think we’d just roll over and play dead? Cite that we’re randomly bombing people. And while you’re at it post your suggestion on how to deal with warlords who take young children and raise them to adulthood to be ideological religious warriors. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/84 "2012-09-15T04:17:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hardly. And we aren’t killing people for fighting, just for being near someone who we think might or might not be someone don’t like. I’d just like to point out that your views on this issue that I’ve seem posted in this thread so far are so utterly simplistic, uninformed and emotionally based as to defy comprehension. If you were aware of the reality surrounding contemporary military precision strike capability, fire control and collateral damage statistics I believe your head would probably explode. Better to revile in your convenient illusions and keep one more innocent alive. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/85 "2012-09-15T04:17:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Cite that we’re randomly bombing people. [Here’s](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/world/asia/12drones.html?_r=1) a story on drone inaccuracy.; it’s actually pretty mild in its criticism. Why don’t you provide a believable cite that we aren’t killing people randomly? > [@Magiver](#): > > And while you’re at it post your suggestion on how to deal with warlords who take young children and raise them to adulthood to be ideological religious warriors. Stay out of their range. > [@kwimby](#): > > I’d just like to point out that your views on this issue that I’ve seem posted in this thread so far are so utterly simplistic, uninformed and emotionally based as to defy comprehension. > > If you were aware of the reality surrounding contemporary military precision strike capability, fire control and collateral damage statistics I believe your head would probably explode. Translation: I don’t chant “Rah rah go America” loud enough when we bomb a wedding. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/86 "2012-09-15T04:45:25Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Why? Is it your contention that people can’t tolerate being insulted, that they can’t control their actions? Or is it your contention that _some people_ can’t tolerate it? It is my contention (or you could just watch the news any night of the week) that many people _will not_ tolerate this kind of offense and feel strongly that, according to their beliefs and culture, violence is the only correct response. We can debate for as many pages as you’d like about how wrong they are according to _our_ beliefs and culture, but it won’t change the fact that these things are happening. It is also my contention that a strategy that includes maybe kinda spewing a little bit less offensive hate at them will be more successful at reducing this violence than will a strategy of convincing them that they’re wrong. But then I’m in customer service 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/87 "2012-09-15T04:48:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/world/asia/12drones.html?_r=1) a story on drone inaccuracy.; it’s actually pretty mild in its criticism. Why don’t you provide a believable cite that we aren’t killing people randomly? > > Stay out of their range. > > Translation: I don’t chant “Rah rah go America” loud enough when we bomb a wedding. I’ll ask you again for a cite that we are randomly targeting civilians. and It would be lovely to stay out of their range but I’m limited to this planet. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/88 "2012-09-15T05:36:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But they need to understand the concept that when one of us does something that offends them, that doesn’t mean that our nation or society as a whole is sponsoring, endorsing or approving the thing that offends them. Not to play devil’s advocate (because, for the most part, I agree with you) but isn’t this more-or-less the same argument Muslims have against Westerners? - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/89 "2012-09-15T05:39:31Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > It is my contention (or you could just watch the news any night of the week) that many people _will not_ tolerate this kind of offense and feel strongly that, according to their beliefs and culture, violence is the only correct response. > > We can debate for as many pages as you’d like about how wrong they are according to _our_ beliefs and culture, but it won’t change the fact that these things are happening. > > It is also my contention that a strategy that includes maybe kinda spewing a little bit less offensive hate at them will be more successful at reducing this violence than will a strategy of convincing them that they’re wrong. But then I’m in customer service 😃 Amen **moejoe**. You’ve won the thread. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/90 "2012-09-15T05:52:57Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > It is also my contention that a strategy that includes maybe kinda spewing a little bit less offensive hate at them will be more successful at reducing this violence than will a strategy of convincing them that they’re wrong. But then I’m in customer service 😃 Well the movie already met your strategic objectives. It was not spewed at anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/91 "2012-09-15T06:58:35Z")
The best method of education is more movies like the one made here, more Muhammed Cartoons, etc. Eventually they’ll get with the program and start to ignore them since they can’t be rioting 24/7/365. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/92 "2012-09-15T07:09:58Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The best method of education is more movies like the one made here, more Muhammed Cartoons, etc. Eventually they’ll get with the program and start to ignore them since they can’t be rioting 24/7/365. Yes. They need to accept civilization, even if dragged their by the scruff of their necks. Either that or half a dozen virgins after their lights are turned out. Either way. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/93 "2012-09-15T07:11:43Z")
I was wondering if its possible to can get their religious book modified through UN through an effort lead by some country like Brazil or Japan which considered neutral by everyone in this regard. Make it secular by adding that Jesus, Buddh etc gave the same message as Muhammad, and that Allah, God etc are one and the same. This is what Ahmadi Sect of Islam actually says for which they are persecuted in Pakistan and not considered Muslims by Pakistani Mullahs. Delete the portions in their religious book which cause women inequality, intolerance against religious minorities, homosexuals etc in Islamic societies. Study only the modified books and abandon the older version all across the world. I am wondering if this is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/94 "2012-09-15T09:25:51Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The best method of education is more movies like the one made here, more Muhammed Cartoons, etc. Eventually they’ll get with the program and start to ignore them since they can’t be rioting 24/7/365. No. But more people could join. And the violence could be intensified. “We’ll just insult them in order to convince them of their wrongness!” is a plan which I feel reasonably confident in saying has never once worked. I was going to go on about how bad an idea it was, except it has now been beaten by the idea of literally attempting to rewrite the Koran. Seriously; these are not good ideas. I must confess I can’t think of a way that would help; but i’m not so desperate to come up with some way that i’ll grasp at a plan that would make things worse. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/95 "2012-09-15T09:48:41Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > No. But more people could join. And the violence could be intensified. > > “We’ll just insult them in order to convince them of their wrongness!” is a plan which I feel reasonably confident in saying has never once worked. I was going to go on about how bad an idea it was, except it has now been beaten by the idea of literally attempting to rewrite the Koran. Seriously; these are not good ideas. I must confess I can’t think of a way that would help; but i’m not so desperate to come up with some way that i’ll grasp at a plan that would make things worse. Not completely rewirting, just adding a couple of sentences for secularism and deleting some stuff regarding women, homosexuals, and minorities. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/96 "2012-09-15T10:14:30Z")
Personally, I think you’d be better served by giving them free internet devices by the hundreds of thousands, maybe cheap little four-inch parabolic dishes anyone can use to connect a computer to a satellite signal, and swamp them with James Bond movies, _Baywatch_ episodes, telenovela-ish soap operas, maybe some very mild softcore porn… such that the efforts by their own governments to block these will be seen as relentlessly killjoyish. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/97 "2012-09-15T10:22:44Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/98 "2012-09-15T10:34:30Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > No. But more people could join. And the violence could be intensified. > > “We’ll just insult them in order to convince them of their wrongness!” is a plan which I feel reasonably confident in saying has never once worked. I was going to go on about how bad an idea it was, except it has now been beaten by the idea of literally attempting to rewrite the Koran. Seriously; these are not good ideas. I must confess I can’t think of a way that would help; but i’m not so desperate to come up with some way that i’ll grasp at a plan that would make things worse. We don’t have to convince them of anything since what they believe in is only of secondary concern; it is how they behave that is the issue. So if they were confronted on a daily basis with things that is a challenge to their beliefs then supposedly eventually they’d get used to it and don’t go into retard mode over some random stuff they dig up on the bottom of the Internet. But in any case the Internet is full of stuff that is a much worse affront to Islam than this movie or the previous cartoons, so I’m not sure it works that way. It’s more like they want a nice riot and then they go find some random thing to riot about. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/99 "2012-09-15T11:11:24Z")
One would assume that people in Australia would be educated and have access to James Bond movies and soft core porn, but still [violence against Mohammed film trailer spreads to Sydney.](http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-gas-sydney-protesters-20120915-25yrb.html) > [@](#): > > Police used tear gas on the protesters. Up to 500 people stormed through the city, working their way through Pitt Street before moving to Hyde Park amid a heavy police presence. > > The crowd carried signs such as \*\*“Behead all those who insult the prophet” \*\*and “Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell”. > > Paramedics attended to several protesters suffering from the effects of tear gas. > > Police arrested people in Hyde Park amid violent confrontations with demonstrators. > > The protesters were pushed back as police dogs and capsicum spray were deployed. > > Fairfax Media saw a number of arrests and seriously injured protesters. One protester being taken away by ambulance spat at officers and chanted “Allahu Akbar”. [More coverage and useful photos](http://rt.com/news/police-australia-protesters-sydney-187/) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714/100 "2012-09-15T12:27:24Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Not to play devil’s advocate (because, for the most part, I agree with you) but isn’t this more-or-less the same argument Muslims have against Westerners? If you mean that many Muslims want Westerners to understand that the actions of a fanatical violent subset of Muslims do not represent the attitudes of **all** Muslims, then yes it is. Both arguments are valid, and they don’t contradict each other. The Muslim world needs to develop a better understanding of the fact that the acts of specific hateful individuals and groups in the West are not sponsored and endorsed by the Western world as a whole. And vice versa. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-be-working-harder-to-educate-the-muslim-world-about-free-speech/634714.md?page=6)