# Should We Bring Back Mammoths? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376 "2007-07-11T16:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/41 "2007-07-11T19:38:40Z")
[QUOTE=the PC apeman] With looking glass ties, no doubt. 😉 [/QUOTE] _— golf clap—_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/42 "2007-07-11T19:43:35Z")
I’ve read that zookeepers have to use blowtorches on elephants to burn off their hair (which in the wild would be abraded off by trees, etc.). If mammoths are similar, their fur would not be something you would want next to your skin. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/43 "2007-07-11T19:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Excuse my relative ignorance on the matter, but who is going to teach this newly minted mammoths the rules of mammoth etiquette?. [/QUOTE] Even older males see a storehouse of grain or a garden as food rather than private property. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/44 "2007-07-11T19:58:46Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Or clone some dire wolves [/QUOTE] Then teach the mammoths to sing: _Don’t murder me, I beg you, you don’t murder me Ple-ease don’t murder me_ in that laid-back Jerry Garcia style. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/45 "2007-07-11T20:58:12Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’ve read that zookeepers have to use blowtorches on elephants to burn off their hair (which in the wild would be abraded off by trees, etc.). If mammoths are similar, their fur would not be something you would want next to your skin. [/QUOTE] :eek: Really? cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/46 "2007-07-11T21:03:37Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] :eek: Really? cite, please. [/QUOTE] It was a minor point in Poul Anderson’s 1954 SF novel [_Brain Wave._](http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Wave-Poul-Anderson/dp/0345325214) Other than that, I got nuttin’. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/47 "2007-07-11T21:15:03Z")
I think we need to clone Mimmoths. As seen in _Girl Genius_. > [@](#): > > Mimmoths—tiny verminous mammoths. Originally somebody’s experiment, they escaped and quickly populated most of Europe. They fill the same niche as mice and tend to live alongside them. They get into machinery and push things around with their tusks, wreaking havoc. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/48 "2007-07-12T01:17:37Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It was a minor point in Poul Anderson’s 1954 SF novel [_Brain Wave._](http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Wave-Poul-Anderson/dp/0345325214) Other than that, I got nuttin’. [/QUOTE] I recall the same. Looking at Google, PETA is screaming about it; whether or not it’s actually uncomfortable for the elephant I don’t know. PETA and similar folk have trouble grasping that what’s bad for a human is not necessarily bad for an elephant; blowtorch on a human = gruesome; blowtorch on elephant = grooming, apparently. And I think Mimmoths would be cool. And House Mammoths. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/49 "2007-07-12T01:26:21Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’ve read that zookeepers have to use blowtorches on elephants to burn off their hair [/QUOTE] I vaguely remember that, but cannot find a cite. I “petted” using the term loosely, an Asian elephant at the zoo. It was rather like thumping a brick wall covered in steel wool. I wasn’t going to tell Malodorous until he tried on the boxer shorts. You’ve ruined everything. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/50 "2007-07-12T03:30:10Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I recall the same. Looking at Google, PETA is screaming about it; whether or not it’s actually uncomfortable for the elephant I don’t know. PETA and similar folk have trouble grasping that what’s bad for a human is not necessarily bad for an elephant; blowtorch on a human = gruesome; blowtorch on elephant = grooming, apparently. And I think Mimmoths would be cool. And House Mammoths. [/QUOTE] I have seen women who intentionally apply fire to their hair. I think it has something to do with split ends. I cut my own hair at home with a #1 comb on a clipper, so don’t take me as an authority on hair care. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/51 "2007-07-12T03:49:25Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > One thing that I wanted to disagree with was the idea that bears and wolves couldn’t hunt mammals. First off, woolly mammoths were only as big as the modern Indian Elephant. Second, large pack animals hunt by going after the old, sick, and young. I see no reasons why wolves couldn’t pick off the occasional mammoth. As **Pleonast** pointed out, though, the modern elephant doesn’t have predators. When hunting herd animals, it’s not just about whether your pack can manage to drag down an old, sick or young one; it’s also about whether the other herd members will stomp your pack into the ground when they try. Yes, caribou are bigger than wolves, but they certainly don’t have the stomping power of mammoths. I think smart wolves would quickly learn to leave mammoth herds alone. Bears, hunting individually rather than in packs, would be even more vulnerable to a herd stomping, despite their size and strength. I seriously doubt you could rely on wolves and bears to keep the mammoth population in check. And unchecked mammoth overpopulation is not a pretty thought. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/52 "2007-07-12T04:44:33Z")
How would they use a single female specimen to create a viable wild population? For one thing, you’d also need a male specimen so you could clone a mate for the female. Even if you had that, I wouldn’t think that 2 specimens constitute a big enough genetic pool to create a viable wild population. I think that the most you could do with this one specimen is clone females for zoos and research. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/53 "2007-07-12T05:01:13Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Cite? There are several theories about the cause of the [Pleistocene extinction,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction_event#The_Pleistocene_or_Ice_Age_extinction_event) but the prevailing one (I think) is that humans killed off all the megafauna – either directly by hunting them or indirectly by taking over their food sources. [/QUOTE] No longer the prevailing one, it’s been partially discredited. Or at least the “overkill or Blitzkrieg” _hypothesis_ by Martin has been discredited. Humans are likely at least partially to blame, maybe the major culprit. In this GQ thread we went back and forth. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=391689&highlight=Pleistocene](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=391689&highlight=Pleistocene) Here’s some links: Here’s more:[http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/23/14624](http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/23/14624) "Understanding of the Pleistocene megafaunal extinctions has been advanced recently by the application of simulation models and new developments in geochronological dating. Together these have been used to posit a rapid demise of megafauna due to over-hunting by invading humans. However, we demonstrate that the results of these extinction models are highly sensitive to implicit assumptions concerning the degree of prey naivety to human hunters. In addition, we show that in Greater Australia, where the extinctions occurred well before the end of the last Ice Age (unlike the North American situation), estimates of the duration of coexistence between humans and megafauna remain imprecise. Contrary to recent claims, the existing data do not prove the “blitzkrieg” model of overkill. " [http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conte...act/306/5693/70](http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conte...act/306/5693/70) _One of the great debates about extinction is whether humans or climatic change caused the demise of the Pleistocene megafauna. Evidence from paleontology, climatology, archaeology, and ecology now supports the idea that humans contributed to extinction on some continents, but human hunting was not solely responsible for the pattern of extinction everywhere. Instead, evidence suggests that the intersection of human impacts with pronounced climatic change drove the precise timing and geography of extinction in the Northern Hemisphere. The story from the Southern Hemisphere is still unfolding. New evidence from Australia supports the view that humans helped cause extinctions there, but the correlation with climate is weak or contested. Firmer chronologies, more realistic ecological models, and regional paleoecological insights still are needed to understand details of the worldwide extinction pattern and the population dynamics of the species involved._ [http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/c...em-overkill.pdf](http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/c...em-overkill.pdf) “The arguements that human hunters were responsible for the extintion of a wide variety of large Pleistocene mammals emerged in Western Europe during the 1860’s… Today the overkill position is rejected for wetsern Europe but lives on in Austrailia and North America. The survival of this hypothesis is due almost entirely to Paul Martin… In North America, archaeologists and paleotologist whose work focuses on the late Pleistocene routinely reject Martin’s postiion for two prime reasons: there is virtually no evidence that supports it, and there is a remarkably broad set of evidence that strongly suggests that it is wrong. In response, Martin asserts that the overkil model predicts a lack of supporting evidence, thus turning the absences of empirical support into support for his beliefs. We suggest that this feature of the overkill position removes the hypothesis from the realm of science and places it squarely in the realm of faith. One may or may not believe in the overkill position, but one should not confuse it with a scientific hypothesis about the nature of the North American past.” There was never any scientific evidence for the Overkill _hypothesis_, thus it remains a hypothesis, not a theory. Although I see dudes point about re-introducing Wolly Mammoths to the wild, I see no problem with Wild Animal parks or zoos. That would be _so_ cool. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/54 "2007-07-12T05:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] OK, first we bring back the mammoths. Then we breed miniature mammoths. Less trouble to care for. Less impact if one gets out into the wild. You know everyone will want one. [/QUOTE] You mean… a minmoth? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/55 "2007-07-12T05:44:59Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] And I think Mimmoths would be cool. [/QUOTE] Think about how annoying it is to have mice in your house. Now imagine they have prehensile noses. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/56 "2007-07-12T06:26:08Z")
> [@](#): > > You mean… a minmoth? Shhhh! Or they’ll all want one on a stick. Although [in Girl Genius](http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/cgi-bin/ggmain.cgi?date=20041222) they’re spelled mimmoths. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/57 "2007-07-12T06:45:46Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] As **Pleonast** pointed out, though, the modern elephant doesn’t have predators. [/quote] [I think lions attack elephants.](http://www.johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/life_history/risk/lion_elephant_predation_2006.html) I think Discover or Animal Planet had a program fairly recently that showed a bunch of lions attacking a healthy male elephant. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/58 "2007-07-12T11:26:02Z")
Well there you go. We’ll just need to clone a few [smilodons](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilodon) at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/59 "2007-07-12T12:33:11Z")
Elephants are indeed [prey animals.](http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006520123,00.html) [This source](http://www.elephant-news.com/) carries stories of elephants killed by predators although it has none at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376/60 "2007-07-12T13:23:26Z")
I guess they’d be best off [here](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6246926.stm), where this bloke is trying to re-create their preferred habitat in Siberia! There’s an audio link at the foot, as well, to the broadcast programme (which had a bit more detail). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-bring-back-mammoths/411376.md?page=4)