# Should we change our national anthem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2000, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423 "2000-08-31T01:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eada6e/32.png) [@aha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aha)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/1 "2000-08-31T01:27:01Z")
I have heard many people complain that it is hard to sing and as a music teacher I concur with that. But I have also heard many people say that it is too miltaristic. That it glorifies war and all the bombs and rockets that go with war. My high school humanities class nominated “America” as a better anthem. The melody although english in origin, is prettier and the lyrics were written by an American in peaceful times. So I thought I would submit to the TM’s. What say ye? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/2 "2000-08-31T01:45:52Z")
We are a Country engendered in revolution, and based on a new and novel idea: That people were equal. That meant that kings did not have the right to rule us arbitrarily from across the sea, and that the purpose of government was to serve the people. The realization of these ideas cost lives. Unfortunately so does their maintenance. Nowhere is this clearer to me than in the lines: "The rockets red glare the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there." Yes, musically and lyrically the song is pretty tough to perform. So are the things that it stands for. I can’t imagine changing either for convienance’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/3 "2000-08-31T02:01:04Z")
_The Star-Spangled Banner_ did not become the U.S. national anthem until the 1930s. George Carlin once commented on the violence of American culture by saying, “We have the only national anthem with rockets and bombs in it.” I think _America the Beautiful_ would make a **much** better national anthem: “O beautiful for patriot dream that sees beyond the years.” The only problem with _America the Beautiful_ is that the refrain says, “God shed his grace on thee,” which is a clear violation of the separation of church and state. (Then again, the 4th verse of the Star-Spangled Banner says “In God is our trust.”…) ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/4 "2000-08-31T02:02:48Z")
Couldn’t we just ditch lyrics altogether? I nominate J.P. Sousa’s _Stars and Stripes Forever_! It’s got a good beat and it’s easy to march to, plus it already has a high recognition factor. You can’t help but think “America” when you hear those opening bars. And if you absolutely require lyrics, you can sing, “Be kind to your web-footed friends.” It’s a nice sentiment and good advice to the youngsters. If it’s a formal occasion like a State Dinner or something, you might want to just sing them under you breath. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/5 "2000-08-31T03:30:43Z")
Yes. To “America the Beautiful.” It’s a prettier song; it’s much easier to sing for all Americans; and it does a better job of characterizing the great things about our country. The Star-Spangled Banner is a little too tightly focused (about a flag enduring a battle) and militaristic. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/6 "2000-08-31T03:49:23Z")
I’m gonna defend the current anthem. We were born out of conflict, and we have had to fight to keep ourselves free. The War of 1812 was the last and, hopefully, only time we’re ever invaded by a hostile military. Our capital was burned. The president was evacuated under combat conditions. While the Star-Spangled Banner was being composed, the US was in its darkest hour since the Revolution. Ft. McHenry, our line of defense on the essential Baltimore Harbor, was under attack by a superior British force. The British were shelling us from standoff range, beyond the reach of our guns. They shelled the fort all the dark, rainy night of September 13, 1814. Francis Scott Key, a lawyer, had been sent to secure the release of a prisoner of war. He had to watch the shelling, how we would not surrender the fort even though we had no way to strike back at our enemy. He saw how the flag, made big enough to be seen even during thick combat, stayed up, even when enemy artillery provided the only illumination. Francis Scott Key wrote the song as proof that we, as a nation, had the same qualities as our defiant flag. We have won on foreign fields since, Berlin and Okanawa and Seoul, and have hoisted our flag many times in many places, but perhaps the most defining moment in our history was the flag we wouldn’t bring down. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/7 "2000-08-31T03:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > The melody although english in origin Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the melody of the Star Spangled Banner come from an old English drinking song? Key squeezed those lyrics in there where he could. “Whosebroadstripesandbright staaaaaaaaaaaaars.” IMHO, it sucks. The government should comission They Might be Giants to write an anthem. Now _that_ is something I could sink my teeth into. ---
**Author:** ![MysterEcks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MysterEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysterEcks)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/8 "2000-08-31T07:14:31Z")
I have to agree with **Scylla** and **Derleth** –_The Star Spangled Banner_should remain our National Anthem. I don’t think of it as glorifying war; rather, I hear it as being about how sometimes you have to fight to gain and maintain your freedom. (I’ll certainly agree that it’s hard to sing, though. For the most part, it comes out a lot better as an instrumental.) **neutron star** said: > [@](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the melody of the Star Spangled Banner come from an old English drinking song? You are correct–I believe it was called \*The Battle Of The Kegs,\*though I might be thinking of something else. But that’s nothing compared to the shock kids get when they realize _My Country T’is Of Thee_is really _God Save The Queen._ ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/9 "2000-08-31T08:33:09Z")
I’m gonna say no. Yeah, it’s a tough song to sing, but I can’t sing anyway. It doesn’t say much about our land, but it’s says a lot about us as a people. That we love our country, are willing to sacrifice for it, and are willing to fight to defend it, and we will not give up. “The rockets red glare the bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there” I get a little misty when I sing it. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/10 "2000-08-31T08:45:21Z")
- OUR national anthem specifically mentions bashing out the enemy’s brains: “King Christian stood by tow’ring mast, In mist and smoke. His sword was hammering so fast, Through Gothic helm and brain it passed” As you can see, it’s rather aggressive (4 more verses in the same vein) and besides, it’s hard to sing. So we had another written 'bout 150 years ago - “Der er et yndigt land” - not EXACTLY “Denmark the beautiful”, but close enough. What I’m trying to say: Having two anthems can work quite nicely. Peaceful, singable anthem for sport tournaments, summer solstice, new years evening etc. Traditional, pompous, militaristic, dignified anthem for more official occasions: state visits, greeting the Royal family, military events etc. Works for us, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mazirian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mazirian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazirian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/11 "2000-08-31T09:10:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MysterEcks \* > > You are correct–I believe it was called \*The Battle Of The Kegs,\*though I might be thinking of something else. But that’s nothing compared to the shock kids get when they realize _My Country T’is Of Thee_is really _God Save The Queen._ And _God Save the Queen_ was inspired by the anthem of the Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/12 "2000-08-31T14:51:02Z")
SHould we change our national anthem? That depends on the meaning of the following words: We, should, our, and national. If the national anthem is changed, I think Bart Simpson’s version should be used: “Hey America, you’re so fine, you’re so fine you blow my mind, America!” ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/13 "2000-08-31T15:01:05Z")
God help me. I agree with Scylla! “The Star-Spangled Banner” was written by Francis Scott Key after the bombing of Fort McHenry by the British in the War of 1812. Freedom is never free, and I think the current generation of Americans has forgotten that, but then I think patriotism here has gone to the dogs anyway. Freedom is never given, it must be taken; peacefully, if possible or by force, if necessary. > [@](#): > > George Carlin once commented on the violence of American culture by saying, “We have the only national anthem with rockets and bombs in it.” Have you checked out the lyrics to “La Marseillaise” lately? Very bloody. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/14 "2000-08-31T15:24:25Z")
The master [answereth](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_011.html). Being an internationalist, I think we should get rid of all national anthems, but that’s just me. I like to sing the words Cecil provided whenever I hear the tune. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/15 "2000-08-31T15:28:59Z")
While America the Beautiful has special meaning to me in that some have seem my picture and said “Purple mountains majesty!”, I think the current one is just fine. I like that singing it is a struggle for nearly all. I am tone deaf and can slaughter any song quite thoroughly while trying to sing it well, at least my patriotic screechings to the star spangled banner don’t stand out much in comparison to the others singing along. “Home of the Free and land of the Brave,” is the part that always gets me. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/16 "2000-08-31T21:56:00Z")
MysterEcks wrote: > [@](#): > > **neutron star** said: > > > [@](#): > > > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the melody of the Star Spangled Banner come from an old English drinking song? > > You are correct–I believe it was called \*The Battle Of The Kegs,\*though I might be thinking of something else. You were thinking of something else. 😉 The tune to _The Star-Spangled Banner_ came from a particular song called either _The Anacreontic Song_ or _To Anacreon in Heaven_, depending on whom you ask. It was the “high society drinking song” for London’s Anacreontic Society. It was 6 verses long; the lyrics were written first, in around 1770, and the tune appeared a year or two later. A copy of the lyrics, and the tune as it was originally intended to be sung, can be found at [http://www.bcpl.net/~etowner/anacreon.html](http://www.bcpl.net/~etowner/anacreon.html). ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/17 "2000-08-31T22:16:30Z")
Our national anthem should be “This Land is Your Land” by Woody Guthrie. A nice tune that’s easy to sing. And it’s not extolling the glories of war. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2000, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/18 "2000-08-31T22:25:58Z")
Im clearly on the 'lets keep it" side of this debate. I think it’s good and neccesary that our anthem speaks of the struggles neccesary to maintaining freedom. Im also a Geoge Carlin fan and the idea of those bombs just floats my boat 😃 ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/19 "2000-09-01T00:17:02Z")
Yeah. I suggest anything by Guthrie or Dylan. Of course there is always the old standby “The Internationalle” ---
**Author:** ![MysterEcks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f475e1/32.png) [@MysterEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysterEcks)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/20 "2000-09-01T00:38:39Z")
**mazirian** said: > [@](#): > > And _God Save the Queen_was inspired by the anthem of the Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen. I hadn’t heard that before. (Kilted Yaksmen?) Speaking of Canada, as I recall, part of their national anthem is: > [@](#): > > O’ Canada, > We stand on guard for thee. I somehow doubt they’re standing guard with a bunch of protesters waving signs saying “Go Away!” and “No Invasion Zone!” Damn militaristic Canadians. **tracer** said: > [@](#): > > You were thinking of something else. I stand corrected. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423.md?page=2)