# Should we change our national anthem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2000, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423 "2000-08-31T01:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/41 "2000-09-02T01:00:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by goboy \* > \*\*“The Star-Spangled Banner” was written by Francis Scott Key after the bombing of Fort McHenry by the British in the War of 1812. Freedom is never free… > \*\* :rolleyes: Conquest does not defend freedom but rather destroys it. What do you think that war was about, anyway? As to the song, I’m not sure that the benefits of an anthem outweigh the negatives. I am uneasy about unthinking emotional appeals in general. If we must have 1 then **manhattan** makes a good case to keep FSK. ---
**Author:** ![Greyson3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/258eb7/32.png) [@Greyson3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greyson3)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/42 "2000-09-02T01:10:16Z")
Well, it’s largely a matter of tradition. Doesn’t really matter if the lyrics are lame and it’s hard to sing, well, that gives it **character**! It’s our national anthem for goodness sake! It has been for as long as most people remember! I can’t imagine what an outcry changing it would cause. Think New Coke, but a million times worse. So it’s kind of an academic question. I would not, however, be averse to changing it to the Purina Meow Mix song. The thought of a thousand patriotic citizens rising to their feet, hands on their hearts, and raising their voices to form a grand chorus of “Meow meow meow meow…” Well, it warms my heart, and I think we need to jump on that idea before Cuba steals it first. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/43 "2000-09-02T01:28:12Z")
Hilariously ironic posts! I don’t think we should get rid of the SSB, but I’d love to see one of the other patriotic songs replacing it as the official National Anthem, or even, like Denmark, adopted along with it as co-NAs. My vote would be for “America the Beautiful” – but the Republicans would never stand for it if they knew the background. > [@](#): > > Speaking of Canada, as I recall, part of their national anthem is: > > > [@](#): > > > > O Canada, > > We stand on guard for thee. Not **part** of it. **Most** of it. Over and over and over and… 😃 -Polycarp, who used to tune in Canadian stations and who is expecting Matt\_mcl to flame that last remark any moment now… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/44 "2000-09-02T01:58:14Z")
Polycarp wrote: > [@](#): > > My vote would be for “America the Beautiful” – but the Republicans would never stand for it if they knew the background. What, was “America the Beautiful” written by a bunch of Communist sympathizers who made huge soft-money donations to the Democratic party or something? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/45 "2000-09-02T02:05:10Z")
No, it was written in 1893 by a maiden schoolteacher named Katherine Lee Bates, and the imagery reflects her trip to the Columbian Exposition in Chicago (“thine alabaster cities gleam”) and across the Great Plains to Denver (“purple mountain majesty above the fruited plain”). However, it was a plea for brotherhood, toleration, and acceptance, and she and the lady she spent her life with campaigned for that in a very low-key basis. And yeah, what you read into that last sentence is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2000, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/46 "2000-09-02T06:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > I used to really like the National Anthem, before I saw The Naked Gun. The seen where Leslie Nielson is butchering it(and yes the fact that he is Canadian makes it even worse) just jumps into my mind everytime I hear the first few notes. TO: Department of National Defence, Ottawa FROM: SDMB Mole RE: Pleased to report that the American Demolarisation (Neilson Effect) Plan is working, one video rental at a time. Path is being cleared for follow-ups: the Dion Screech and the Shatner Self-Importance Bomb. Prepare the Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen for immediate maneuvers. END TRANSMISSION ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/47 "2000-09-05T15:32:09Z")
Polycarp: > [@](#): > > My vote would be for “America the Beautiful” – but the Republicans would never stand for it if they knew the background. I think Republicans would like that line in the second stanza, “Confirm thy soul in self-control.” The Democrats would hate it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/48 "2000-09-05T15:44:23Z")
Hey, Chaim…it’s over on the Right Wing Christian Boards that you’re supposed to have to prove that you can be moral and a Liberal Democrat at the same time, not here! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/49 "2000-09-05T16:00:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by goboy > “The Star-Spangled Banner” was written by Francis Scott Key after the bombing of Fort McHenry by the British in the War of 1812. Freedom is never free… > > 2sense replied: > Conquest does not defend freedom but rather destroys it. > What do you think that war was about, anyway? Let’s see: [ul] [li]The British were pressganging our sailors onto their ships.[/li][li]Britain imposed a blockade on our shipping to France during the Napoleonic Wars[/li][li]and yes, the War Hawks in Congress were spoiling for a fight over Canada[/li][/ul] Even though we fired the first shots, the British provoked the war by infringing on our national sovereignty. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2000, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/50 "2000-09-05T18:24:12Z")
In that case, I say we change our National Anthem to: “In 1814 we took a little trip Along with Colonel Jackson down the Mighty Missisip’. We took a little bacon, and we took a little beans, And we met the bloody British near the town of New Orleans.” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/51 "2000-09-06T03:23:18Z")
The Battle of New Orleans Music and lyrics by Jimmy Driftwood In 1814 we took a little trip along with Colonel Jackson down the mighty Mississip. We took a little bacon and we took a little beans And we caught the bloody British in the town of New Orleans. We fired our guns and the British kept a’comin. There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago. We fired once more and they began to runnin’ on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. We looked down the river and we seed the British come. And there must have been a hundred of ‘em beatin’ on the drum. They stepped so high and they made the bugles ring. We stood by our cotton bales and didn’t say a thing. We fired our guns and the British kept a’comin. There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago. We fired once more and they began to runnin’ on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. Old Hickory said we could take 'em by surprise If we didn’t fire our muskets til we looked 'em in the eye We held our fire til we seed their faces well. then we opened up with squirrel guns And really gave ‘em hell. We fired our guns and the British kept a’comin. There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago. We fired once more and they began to runnin’ on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn’t go. They ran so fast that the hounds couldn’t catch ‘em on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. We fired our cannon til the barrel melted down. So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round. We filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind and when we touched the powder off, the gator lost his mind. We fired our guns and the British kept a’comin. There wasn’t nigh as many as there was a while ago. We fired once more and they began to runnin’ on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles and they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn’t go. they ran so fast that the hounds couldn’t catch 'em on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. Hup 2, 3, 4. Sound off 3, 4… Hup 2, 3, 4. Sound off 3, 4… Hup 2, 3, 4 I can dig up the tune if you want. It’s a fun little song, but not anthem material. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/52 "2000-09-06T04:35:56Z")
\*\*goboy \*\*: The War of 1812 was a land grab writ large. Conquering Canada was a secondary consideration. The main motive of the US was to end British support for the First Nations. [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26658) has a good discussion of the topic. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/53 "2000-09-06T15:10:57Z")
> [@](#): > > The main motive of the US was to end British support for the First Nations That wasn’t the main motive, but it certainly was a consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/54 "2000-09-06T17:24:45Z")
John Philip Sousa wrote words to his march The Stars and Stripes Forever. (to the web footed friend bit) Hooraa for the flag of the free Let it wave as a standard forever The gem of the land and the sea The banner of the proud (bright?) Let despots rember the day When our father with mighty endevor Would shout as they marched to the fray That by their right and by their might it waves forever But I still the Star Spangled Banner. One if we want to get rid of someting because it is difficult lets start with the SAT’s. Two It seems to recognize the idea that “America” is constantly being made. We aren’t done. Oh say does the star spangled banner yet wave over the land of the free and the home of the brave? To me this means that we Americans (not just the one’s in the past) must protect our freedom and the freedom of others and we must have the courage to do it. The song does not talk how pretty the flag is or nice the sceanery is but what are we like. Are we brave and free? That is why it is a great anthem. But the bit in Casablanca where they sing the French anthem is great! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/55 "2000-09-06T19:00:24Z")
Zebra wrote: > [@](#): > > John Philip Sousa wrote words to his march The Stars and Stripes Forever. > > (to the web footed friend bit) > Hooraa for the flag of the free How come I always hear it as “Hooray for the red, white, and blue”? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2000, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/56 "2000-09-06T23:09:37Z")
I don’t know why you hear it that way. I did here it sung with all ot the word on A Praie Home companion and I had (have?) a tap of the show (the first farewell performance) and they sung ‘flag of the free’. I think alot of flags are red white and blue but we Americans are obiviously the only free nation so I would think you would have to say flag of the free. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2000, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/57 "2000-09-07T02:34:59Z")
**zebra** , thanks for the lyrics. Okay, so JPS wasn’t much of a poet - but he was one heck of a composer! I stand by my original idea to ditch words altogether. We would never, ever have to worry about hearing a Madonna rendition. But “Americans are obiviously the only free nation” (with a red, white and blue flag)? Um, the French might disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2000, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/58 "2000-09-07T03:08:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **tomndebb** \* > [High School history books] generally get the intentions of the war wrong, concentrating on the issue of British impressment of seamen and ignoring the much greater goal of driving the British from Upper Canada and neutralizing the Indian allies of the British. (Conquest was not, actually, as high on their list as removing British support for the Indians.) \* There’s my cite, **goboy**. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2000, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/59 "2000-09-07T03:36:20Z")
I also believe that “Mighty Mississip’” would make a good movie title. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2000, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423/60 "2000-09-07T04:03:48Z")
Why do I get the feeling that **tracer** is taunting me? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-our-national-anthem/31423.md?page=4)