# Should we change the names of military bases named after Confederate Generals? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481 "2013-06-08T18:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/41 "2013-06-10T14:18:49Z")
The bases were not named that to honor anyones valor. These were bases opened in the south around WWI and into WWII. The federal government grabbed up a lot of land. In order to smooth feathers they named the forts (smaller camps at the time mostly) after military leaders that were from the local area. As someone who has spent a lot of time on some of those bases I will tell you the people it bothers are those like the guy from the NY Times and some posting here. Those who have no ties to the military and to whom this is little more than an intellectual exercise. Braxton Bragg was a shitty general and he is mostly forgotten. But Fort Bragg now has a storied history and its name means much more than who it was named after. Same with Fort Hood. And Fort Stewart. As a former member of Army Aviation I trade stories about Mother Rucker. No one remembers who Edmund Rucker is. The names and history of the Forts are much more important than any of those who they are named after (with the possible exception of Fort Lee). Leave the names alone. Let the Army keep our traditions and history. Don’t piss off the guys in the red and green beenies. No one cares about who they were originally named after any more. Its just a piece of trivia for the most part. But the history of those bases is not for those who served and are serving there. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/42 "2013-06-10T14:35:06Z")
When people decide they don’t like the rules coming from somewhere else, rebel and win independence they’re heroes. When they attempt the same and fail, they’re traitors? Perhaps if George Washington had failed you’d be calling him a piece of shit as you sipped your tea and visited your doctor without concern for your bank account. ETA: Here’s a thought on schools. Name them after someone smart. Someone who contributed to humanity through science, writing, music or any discipline relevant to a place of learning. Sure, name the forts after the leaders who should serve as military examples to soldiers, but name schools after someone more relevant. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/43 "2013-06-10T15:03:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, enough with the honors for the racist traitors by their racist ancestors. Every statue of NBF should be torn down. His name shold be taken off everything other than historical battlefield markers. Let’s not paint them all with one brush. While Forrest sounds like a true asshole, and I can’t imagine why folks think he should be honored, the same is not true of all Confederate Generals. Robert E. Lee disagreed with the war, but when asked to choose sides between his home state and the Union, he sided with Virginia. You can see why Virginians might regard him as a hero for that. I have heard that he said some things about how slavery was, on balance, good for the black race. I suspect that was born of the notion that conversion to Christianity was a good that outbalanced all conceivable ills, which was a popular point of view for hundreds of years. I have also heard that he disliked slavery, and that after the war he took communion with a black man who had joined his church when no other member of the congregation would. And a lot of our heroes are traitors. Ben Franklin listed himself and an English Subject his whole life long, he just had some fundamental disagreements with the King and Parliament over what constituted an acceptable way to treat their citizens. Much like how the states that eventually formed the Confederacy believed that they had the right to withdraw from the alliance known as the United States. I’m not sure they were wrong about that, although the violence was not resolved in their favor. So my position would be: stop honoring the assholes, blatant war criminals, and the founder of the KKK\*? Fine idea, all for it. Stop honoring ALL Confederate Patriots because some of them where assholes? Terrible idea. Since folks might find it relevant, while I am presently in Virginia, I am originally from Connecticut. \*(Is there any chance that the KKK started out as a fine idea that when horribly wrong? Like, maybe it was a social club that promoted planting daisies? I really doubt it, but I hate to condemn a man without having all the facts, and I’m given to understand that at its inception the Inquisition was a simple benevolent idea that got perverted over time, so …) ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/44 "2013-06-10T15:11:12Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > ETA: Here’s a thought on schools. Name them after someone smart. Someone who contributed to humanity through science, writing, music or any discipline relevant to a place of learning. Sure, name the forts after the leaders who should serve as military examples to soldiers, but name schools after someone more relevant. Where I come from, schools were named for _educators_. Or compass points (Southeast Elementary, Northwest Elementary, etc). Or the family that donated the land, but those were all closed by the time I came along. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/45 "2013-06-10T15:51:28Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > Why stop at military bases? > > Friends of mine who grew up in Jacksonville, Florida report every public school they attended was named for some officer of the Confederacy. > > I don’t mean 100 years ago; I mean in the latter part of the last century. I used to pass JEB Stuart High School all the time. I heard that they changed the name of Nathan Forrest School to Forest School. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/46 "2013-06-10T16:28:52Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > ETA: Here’s a thought on schools. Name them after someone smart. Someone who contributed to humanity through science, writing, music or any discipline relevant to a place of learning. Sure, name the forts after the leaders who should serve as military examples to soldiers, but name schools after someone more relevant. So, then you’re against sending your kids to “Eddie Van Halen High School”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/47 "2013-06-10T18:47:38Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The bases were not named that to honor anyones valor. These were bases opened in the south around WWI and into WWII. The federal government grabbed up a lot of land. In order to smooth feathers they named the forts (smaller camps at the time mostly) after military leaders that were from the local area. That was my guess, actually, since we have Fort Hood in central Texas, that was founded in the early part of WWII, and named after a rather poor Confederate general who was from Texas, and commanded the Texas Brigade for a while in the Civil War, before being promoted. Clearly they chose the big names, not the effective ones- we’d have Fort Robertson or Fort Terry if they had, not Fort Hood. Personally I don’t care. The Civil War was almost 150 years ago. Next thing you’ll be calling for is for state National Guard units to take off Confederate battle streamers from their flags. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/48 "2013-06-10T19:47:15Z")
Once we fix all the other problems, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/49 "2013-06-11T14:33:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@Trinopus](#): > > > > In contrast, I agree with the highway department that refused to allow the KKK to “adopt a highway.” That is the kind of fight we have to take on today. > > IIRC, they were allowed to adopt a highway – however, a decision was made to change the name of that particular road to the “Rosa Parks Highway” shortly after the Klan was given the go-ahead. The highway department in Missouri refused to allow KKK to adopt the highway. KKK sued and won, and in 2001 the department was compelled to allow it, and put up signs showing it. The legislature then re-named that section of highway after Rosa Parks, clearly just to stick their thumbs in the KKK’s collective eye. From [Wikipedia “Interstate 55 in Missouri”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_55_in_Missouri): [ > [@](#): > > The white supremacy group Ku Klux Klan began fighting several court battles with the state of Missouri after the state disputed its right to sponsor a stretch of freeway in Saint Louis County and Jefferson County, near St. Louis. In March 2001, after a U.S. District Court judge found that blocking the Klan’s sponsorship was unconstitutional, the Court of Appeals ruled that the state must erect signs announcing the group’s sponsorship. However, the Missouri Legislature later voted to rename the stretch of I-55 the “Rosa Parks Freeway” in honor of the Montgomery civil rights hero who began the Montgomery bus boycott. When asked how she felt about this honor, she is reported to have commented, “It is always nice to be thought of.”[2] The Klan were eventually dropped from the scheme on April 4, 2001, on the grounds that for the duration of their sponsorship, they had not once cleaned the freeway. ]([Interstate 55 in Missouri - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_55_in_Missouri)) ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/50 "2013-06-12T08:10:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The former[Ft. Sherman i](http://images.military.com/UserImages/42408)s still known as “Sherman” locally. [Ft. Grant](http://www.coins-of-panama.com/views/pc175-01.jpg) is just a distant memory though. (Although I am currently developing and exhibit on endangered frogs that will [go in one of its bunkers](http://lifenbits.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/img_8417.jpg).) Not to threadjack, but that looks like a beautiful place to be. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/51 "2013-06-12T21:26:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > … Also, it’s quite likely the Klan was using his name and that he was not actually a part of it. The evidence seems to be that he let them do it because he felt the South needed someone to stand up to the northerners, but not expecting it to be attacking Blacks. > > Forrest was a far more complex character than is usually thought. That’s interesting, but it does remind me of the _They Might Be Giants_ song, _Your Racist Friend_ > [@John](#): > > You can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/52 "2013-06-12T22:42:49Z")
It’s been 148 years, none of these people have been alive for generations. They’re just names now; leave them be. It’s not worth the cost and paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/53 "2013-06-13T15:25:14Z")
They’re not "just names’. The are a continuance of Southern Apologists and denial. This supports racism & hatred. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/54 "2013-06-14T19:16:56Z")
As long as they don’t actually have like a plaque or something talking about how great they are, I don’t understand the problem. Other than a few big ones, no one knows anyone from the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/55 "2013-06-14T20:35:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They’re not "just names’. The are a continuance of Southern Apologists and denial. This supports racism & hatred. Do you include those nasty slave owners in Maryland and Delaware? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/56 "2013-06-17T03:41:45Z")
Thread hijack: in Aus, most German names were changed during WWI. The state of SA was 10% German origin at that time. Under the Nomenclature Act of 1917, Grunberg was renamed Karalta, Siegersdorf to Bultawilta, Neukirch to Dimchurch, and scores of others. Aus wasn’t the only place to do this: Berlin, Canada, became Kitchener in 1916. And Aus had Freedom Fries too: in SA they ate a lot of German food, and the Berliner (of President Kennedy fame: I am a Berliner), became a Kitchener Bun (after Lord Kitchener) In my own area, German Town became Eltham (Elt-ham, later Elth-am). Seems crazy and tragic now. Some of the place names were officially changed back to the local name 20 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Detroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@Detroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Detroit)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/57 "2013-06-18T17:49:57Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Better yet, let’s auction off the naming rights to major corporations, like we do with municipal sports arenas. “Welcome to Pepsi Naval Air Station!” I like it! Make a little money, save on taxes How about Fort Sony? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/58 "2013-06-18T18:04:30Z")
> [@Detroit](#): > > I like it! Make a little money, save on taxes > > How about Fort Sony? Sure but I think that Mitsubishi buying the naming rights to Pearl Harbor might be in bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/59 "2013-06-18T18:41:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They’re not "just names’. They are a continuance of Southern Apologists and denial. This supports racism & hatred. No, they’re not; and no, it doesn’t. > [@SpyOne](#): > > Let’s not paint them all with one brush. > While Forrest sounds like a true asshole, and I can’t imagine why folks think he should be honored, the same is not true of all Confederate Generals. > Robert E. Lee disagreed with the war, but when asked to choose sides between his home state and the Union, he sided with Virginia. You can see why Virginians might regard him as a hero for that. Thank you for this and the rest of your post. It’s mind boggling to me, as it was in the Memorial Day thread, how much hostility some people cling to over a war that occurred 150 years ago. Way more obsession than I hear from people here in the south, which is just about none. I’m a New England yankee myself, politically liberal, and anti-racist – but let’s not rewrite history by scrubbing objectionable names off every public edifice. My high school was named after the leader of a failed racially-fueled rebellion, who massacred his enemies and burned multiple towns to the ground until he was captured and put to justice:[Metacomet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacomet), aka “King Philip.” Should we rename the high school because he lost? Or because he was a war criminal? Or because he was an anti-white racist? Of course not; he’s an important part of the history of the region as much as Lee and Jackson are also important parts of our history. I’m also uncomfortable judging historical figures based on 21st century mores. By modern standards, Abraham Lincoln was a racist too, and Washington owned slaves… should we take them off our money? In fact, Washington was not only a racist slave owner, he led a rebellion against his own country. Does the fact that he won make him more honorable than if he had lost? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481/60 "2013-06-18T19:19:59Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Does the fact that he won make him more honorable than if he had lost? Apparently so. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-change-the-names-of-military-bases-named-after-confederate-generals/660481.md?page=4)