# Should We Give Our Children Ridelin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998 "2003-04-29T21:03:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/81 "2003-05-02T18:05:59Z")
Why oh WHY do people who have no clue about ADHD and other disorders always seem to be the most opinionated about it? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/82 "2003-05-02T18:18:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Why oh WHY do people who have no clue about ADHD and other disorders always seem to be the most opinionated about it? > > :mad: \*\* Because ADD is a moral failing, and it makes us feel morally superior to point that fact out? Not to come down too hard on **lander2k2** , it’s not just people without ADD who are woefully ignorant on the subject. I know two people that have extreme ADD. And both think it’s a myth. One is a psychology student. The other is a psychologist. I suspect that deep down, they both feel it is somehow a moral failing, and don’t want to be associated with that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/83 "2003-05-02T18:21:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lander2k2 \* > \*\*You make a good point. So, the question is, “is ADHD real?” To quote a line from a movie: “What is real? How do you define real?” Aha - ADHD-as-_Matrix_. Now I see where you are coming from. > [@](#): > > Drugs cover up yet, in the long run, exacerbate mental problems. Anyone want to debate that particular issue? Yes, love to. What is your support for the statement? > [@](#): > > _If_ the symptoms of ADHD could be shown to be completely eradicated by simple methods, would you be willing to admit that treating ADHD-type symptoms with drugs like Ritalin was erroneous? \*\* Absolutely! Can you show me this? Let me ask you this. You acknowledge that you are simply Joe Average on this matter, employing common sense. So, is it possible for an average person to truly have an understanding of the full range of possible human experience? If not, is it possible that you lack a full understanding of the range of child and adult functional experiences to make such statements as “There cannot exist a condition X, such that its symptoms are Y and its treatment is Z?” Common sense tells me that making such statements on the support only of a typical person’s experiences is fraught with error. If you acknowledge no special access to a source for such information, but persist in making assertions about all human functioning, you are really not worth listening to. Comon sense tells me that plently of people exist who do possess the capacity to talk out of the top of their hats. As I said, you are not novel in your assertions; I cannot count the number of fathers of children I have talked to who honestly believe that all their child needs is a kick in the ass. I believe that the kick in the ass method has been tried since time immemorial, yet for some children problems persist. So, if you want to continue debate, show me two things, which you have implied you will present. One, evidence that drugs cover up, but ultimately exacerbate, mental health problems. Two, evidence that ADHD can be completely eradicated by simple methods. (If you show me the latter, I will be rich! Screw Russell Barkley and Bill Pelham! Please show me the money! Big screen TV, here I come.) ---
**Author:** ![lander2k2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@lander2k2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lander2k2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/84 "2003-05-02T18:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hentor the Barbarian \* > \*\*Why don’t you tell me who “contracted” the research out? You seem to think that all research is funded by pharmaceutical companies. You asked if I had done research on pharmacotherapy for ADHD. No, I do no pharmaceutical research. Are you suggesting that only pharmacotherapy research can be done regarding ADHD? This is simply ill-informed. Let me explain some differences between psychiatry and psychology for you. A psychiatrist is medically trained as a physician. Generally late in their training, they begin to specialize in psychiatry. Their training is very often in the form of psychodynamic theory, and many simply aren’t well trained nor experienced in individual psychotherapies. They are fairly well trained in pharmacotherapy, and tend to work with their strengths. Psychologists are not medically trained. Their training and education focuses very much on achieving behavioral change and reduction of undesirable emotional dysfunction through psychotherapy, with, depending on the psychologist, a focus on changing the way you think and do things, or less frequently on the relationships among internal mental constructs (psychodynamics). While there is a movement afoot to have psychologists trained and able to prescribe medications, this is in its infancy, and the vast majority of psychologists do not prescribe any medications. Psychologists also have a richer tradition in conducting research, and are generally better trained to do this. Some psychologists do conduct research funded by pharmaceutical companies, many do not. Much of the research is funded by the National Institute of Mental Health, part of the National Institutes of Health. To discount all of the work that has been done via mechanisms such as these, which have very much concluded that ADHD exists as a distinct condition apart from other mental health and medical conditions, you will have to find some other ratoinale than being in the pocket of some pharmaceutical corporation. \*\* Hentor, you said yourself that some psychologists do research for pharmaceutical companies and I asked if you, a psychologist I assume, did any such research. Instead you go into a long explanation that, I hate to break it to you, was a waste of breathe (so to speak). The difference between psychology and psychiatry is pretty much common knowledge as far as I know. You mentioned that much of the research is funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. I’m assuming that the American Psychiatric Association funds its fair share too. What would such institutes and associations be consisting of, perhaps? Psychologists and Psychiatrists maybe? Do you think it would be in their interest to have many disorders and conditions to treat and drug perhaps? Would that mean that they would have an interest in the results of the research? If a researcher reached the conclusion that drugs and psychotherapy did nothing to help the majority of children, would he get more funding for research from such organizations? I’m guessing, no. Just a guess. As a side-note, I understand that the American Psychiatric Association members _vote_ on whether to include a certain disorder in their official list of conditions! They _vote_ on whether a disorder exists or not! Does this sound like science? If anyone would like to contend that point, please speak up. > [@](#): > > …in response to my statement that the shrink’s solution to emotional problems is drugs: > \*\*Again, see the above. I also quoted you a summary statement that accords very much with my own practice, that other therapies should be tried first. \*\* Other therapies should be tried first? Then why is that it seems that so many shrinks (and as far as I understand—the dictionary agrees—shrink means psychiatrist, not psychologist) seem to follow the doctrine of “drug first, ask questions later?” > [@](#): > > \*\*You really need to do some research of your own. Your own bias is worse than that you accuse the mental health profession of. Go to the NIMH website and check out grants for research in ADHD. Go to MedLine, OVID, PsychLit, or some other database of mental health research and look up existing research on ADHD. > > Here’s an aspect of mental health you should look up: _idee fixee_. \*\* Yeah, you’re right. I need to do some research into common sense. My own bias? Is having an opinion bias now? Do you have an opinion? Does that make you bias? Since you haven’t changed your bias and aren’t budging an inch, then you must be suffering from idée fixe (you must feel really silly having misspelled that while trying to seem all highbrow) as well, huh? ---
**Author:** ![lander2k2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@lander2k2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lander2k2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/85 "2003-05-02T18:39:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sugaree \* > \*\*Sorry to hijack away from the topic of Ritalin, but may I have a link to this program? > > **lander2k2** , this sounds interesting. I’d encourage you to post a seperate GD thread re how early children should be started on the traditional elementary curriculum. \*\* Thank-you so much for asking, **sugaree**. That, until now, no-one showed any interest in such a notion was seriously disheartening for me. IMHO, a culture that is more interested in drugging children than finding out how to give them a head-start in their learning is a culture that is in serious trouble. Here’s a link: > **[Home](https://iahp.org/)** > > The Institutes for the Achievement of Human Potential is a group of nonprofit institutes dedicated to childhood development for both well children and brain-injured children. Get a hold of one of their books. They will blow your mind. I think I will start that thread concerning the education of children. Excellent suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/86 "2003-05-02T18:54:26Z")
**Landers2k** , keep it simple: just present the evidence you imply having on the two questions. To remind you: One, evidence that drugs cover up, but ultimately exacerbate, mental health problems. Two, evidence that ADHD can be completely eradicated by simple methods. Your attempts at obfuscation based upon conspiracy theory simply won’t go anywhere. Put up, brother, or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![lander2k2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@lander2k2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lander2k2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/87 "2003-05-02T18:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*I’m saying that you can’t rely on radio “experts” for facts. Talk radio is full of conspiracy theorist crackpots. \*\* Seems to me talk radio is full of idiots who accuse the first observation of corruption as conspiracy theory, but whatever. Go back and have a quick peek at what I said; I was making an incidental remark that had nothing to do with the subject at hand. I’ve gathered no facts on this subject from talk radio. (Are facts available on talk radio—I thought it was all comedy. I guess the joke is on me) > [@](#): > > \*\*Oh my, there is so much wrong in your (snipped) analysis that it’s hard to know where to start. No, my girlfriend is not so drugged up on coffee and ritalin by the end of the night that she passes out. That’s absurd. The ritalin (and coffee) stimulates her brain so that she is able to concentrate on sleep. Without it she is flooded with so many thoughts that she obsesses on everything all night. > > May I also add that she is not only a patient, but a doctor? She is a shrink that has put quite a bit of study into this. Or is she just another member of the vast psychopharmacological conspiracy? > > Sheesh. ADD is the next Great Evil of the world. Once you stop concentrating on D&D and Harry Potter, I guess another scapegoat is necessary. \*\* So your girlfriend has to concentrate to go to sleep, huh? Okay. That your girlfriend is a doctor speaks volumes. It’s good to see that she is subjecting herself to the same treatment that she prescribes to little kids. Seems fair to me. It seems _you’re_ the one trying to make ADD the scapegoat. I think people’s ignorance and irresponsibility should be held accountable myself. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/88 "2003-05-02T19:03:21Z")
**lander2k2** , I hope you get around to answering my questions. I know we’ve peppered you with a lot, and that can be overwhelming. Having said that, I have a few more for you. Some people, due to genetics or environment, have defective legs. Correct? One simply needs to see a person on crutches to know that. And I’m sure you’d say that the crutches are not some product of a vast conspiracy. They are a necessary treatment. We together on this so far? Some people, due to genetics or environment, have defective hearts. Correct? One simply needs to see a person on ACE inhibitors and nitroglycerin to know that. And I’m sure you’d say that those drugs are not some product of a vast conspiracy. Once again, necessary to treat the illness. What is it about the brain that makes it immune from defect? Why is that one organ not subject to damage? What makes it so special? And if you disagree with that immunity, what is the moral outrage at treating the defect with medicine? How is it that treating a defective kindney is sound medicine, while treating a defective brain must be an evil plot? ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/89 "2003-05-02T19:07:33Z")
So you link us to a site selling snake oil. Good show. You throw out hundreds of studies and link one site. Maybe some of what they say is useful so far i have found nothing on their site but gobledy gook but maybe if we send them money they will give us the real information. Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![lander2k2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@lander2k2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lander2k2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/90 "2003-05-02T19:13:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*Incorrect. > > Answer: This is a crackpot conspiracy theory, no different from the “Moon Hoax” or “AIDS was created by the government” or Satanic Panic. It comes complete with evil doctors, neglectful parents, and profiteering. It has to due with a brain disorder, which makes it mysterious and strange, and open to stories of horror and manipulation by those that should know better. It involves psychiatrists, which to the ignorant are little better than voodoo practitioners. It’s the evil du jour. > > And it’s very very wrong. \*\* Why is that any time anyone suggests corruption or self-interest, someone starts screaming “conspiracy theory?” Who said there was a conspiracy? Not me. Just a bunch of people who are willing to make a bunch of cash at the expense of some kids. Pretty simple. No conspiracy. May I ask what you do **tdn**? Are you, per chance, a psychiatrist or psychologist? Or are you just some parent who has bought the psychiatric drivel and allowed your child to be drugged to solve a behavior problem? If neither, why would you be so keen to attack the view that drugging children is a bad idea? Alright, so let’s get this straight: Are you telling me that drug companies _don’t_ make huge amounts of money off the sales of drugs that are fed to children? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/91 "2003-05-02T19:23:26Z")
Let’s see. [http://www.ndsccenter.org/aboutUs/ps\_doman.asp](http://www.ndsccenter.org/aboutUs/ps_doman.asp) Certainly, these people do seem to have an interesting agenda. More later. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/92 "2003-05-02T19:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lander2k2 \* > **So your girlfriend has to concentrate to go to sleep, huh? Okay.** Yes. With no medication she obsesses needlessly about things. It’s not that hard a concept to understand. > [@](#): > > **That your girlfriend is a doctor speaks volumes. It’s good to see that she is subjecting herself to the same treatment that she prescribes to little kids. Seems fair to me.** First of all, it sounds like you’re accusing her of some sort of child abuse. I’d like you to take that back. That’s unfair, and it’s hitting below the belt. You have no call to insult her like that. Second, not that it’s a big deal, but she is not a psychiatrist, she’s a psychologist – and not a clinician. She teaches, writes, and researches. She’s not a pill pusher, but she bothers to study facts rather than rely on what you call “common sense.” Thirdly, if ritalin was such a part of a harmful conspiracy, why would she subject herself to it? She’s done the research, she’s consulted with other doctors, and she’s decided on a treatment. She doesn’t do recreational drugs, and has no desire to. What she wants is to be able to function like a normal human being. > [@](#): > > **It seems _you’re_ the one trying to make ADD the scapegoat.** Huh? I’m having trouble parsing this sentence. It makes absolutely zero sense. > [@](#): > > \*\*I think people’s ignorance and irresponsibility should be held accountable myself. \*\* Here we come to the heart of the matter. Moral accountability. You want to pump yourself up by appearing educated and responsible. In doing so you find something you only think you understand, and demonize it. And that’s bad form. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/93 "2003-05-02T19:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you telling me that drug companies don’t make huge amounts of money off the sales of drugs that are fed to children? No, we’re saying, it’s YOUR theory, it’s up to YOU to prove it. Or at least provide EVIDENCE for it. It’s not for US to disprove it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/94 "2003-05-02T19:28:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Thank-you so much for asking, sugaree. That, until now, no-one showed any interest in such a notion was seriously disheartening for me. IMHO, a culture that is more interested in drugging children than finding out how to give them a head-start in their learning is a culture that is in serious trouble. > > Here’s a link: > > [http://iahp.org/](http://iahp.org/) > > Get a hold of one of their books. They will blow your mind. OK. I’ve looked over the site. What I found was an ad campaign based on vague claims and snippets of testimonials with no genuine information provided, (unless, of course, I choose to _buy_ one of their books or _pay_ to attend one of their seminars). I did not see any references to any articles in any peer-reviewed journals listing their actual successes. (I did not even find any _explicit_ statements regarding their methodology or their analysis.) Now, what was the claim that the only reason for the psychiatric and drug coalition was to invent illnesses to make themselves money? On the other hand, I did find a few comments regarding the IAHP from some critics. I’m sure the [National Down Syndrome Congress](http://www.ndsccenter.org/aboutUs/ps_doman.asp) and the American Academy of Pediatrics are _all_ simply in collusion with the rest of the psych/drug conspiracy. It’s amazing that the overwhelming number of people who want to help other people are _really_ in it to deny reality and to make money (despite the fact that if they _really_ solved the problems, they would garner much more wealth). Now, I am not assuming that the IAHP are, themselves, frauds or charlatans. It is entirely possible that a person with intense personal interaction with a child may be able to enhance the child’s capabilities. Whether that contact can be replicated as a general model of instruction would be the question, of course. Since the IAHP does not appear to have any actual objective studies to which they can point, I suspect that any successes they _may_ have had are a result of the charismatic nature of their core practitioners rather than to their methodology. I’m curious, **lander2k2** , just what is your connection to IAHP? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/95 "2003-05-02T19:33:05Z")
**lander2k2** : Dammit man! You said you understood the difference between psychiatrists and psychologists, but you continue to fail to employ this knowledge. Tell me again how psychologists are making money off of ADHD - I need to know for my own financial well being. We largely cannot prescribe medications right now. We largely cannot be compensated for treatment of ADHD right now. Very few people, if any, are getting rich from research activities (check the stats for average faculty salaries). So what is our financial incentive to remain complicit in this conspiracy, and continue to generate research findings not funded by pharmaceutical companies that support the validity and reliability of a construct called ADHD? Here is the[1998 NIH Consensus Statement](http://odp.od.nih.gov/consensus/cons/110/110_statement.htm) on ADHD - remember, the NIH is a US government agency, so you will have to include the federal government in on the conspiracy, too. I want my evidence - kick up the GD evidence on: One, evidence that drugs cover up, but ultimately exacerbate, mental health problems. Two, evidence that ADHD can be completely eradicated by simple methods. I want to be rich! Help me be rich! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/96 "2003-05-02T19:35:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lander2k2 \* > \*\*Why is that any time anyone suggests corruption or self-interest, someone starts screaming “conspiracy theory?” Who said there was a conspiracy? Not me. \*\* That’s sure what you made it sound like. A bunch of people banding together, inventing false disorders, in order to fleece the public at the expense of the health of children? Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. > [@](#): > > \*\*May I ask what you do **tdn**? Are you, per chance, a psychiatrist or psychologist? Or are you just some parent who has bought the psychiatric drivel and allowed your child to be drugged to solve a behavior problem? \*\* Wow, now I’m a child abuser. Interesting. To set the record straight, I’m a computer programmer working in the cardiac surgery wing of a hospital. I am unmarried and have no children. And psychiatry is not drivel. It is science. > [@](#): > > **If neither, why would you be so keen to attack the view that drugging children is a bad idea?** That’s a nice twist you put on that there. Implying that I think drugging kids is a good idea. Hmm. Feeding kids heroin for breakfast is bad. Treating medical disorders is good. And I have no personal ax to grind in that matter. Clearer? > [@](#): > > \*\*Alright, so let’s get this straight: Are you telling me that drug companies _don’t_ make huge amounts of money off the sales of drugs that are fed to children? \*\* Farmers make huge(?) amounts of money selling food to the hungry. Are you saying that farmers invented a fake thing called “hunger” to reap profits? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/97 "2003-05-02T19:36:15Z")
Hey! They can cure blindness and deafness, too! [http://iahp.org/hurt/victories\_01.html](http://iahp.org/hurt/victories_01.html) It seems that their procedure, called ‘patterning’, is highly specific, and based mostly on one gentleman’s philosophy, without scientific basis. If it works, very good. However, I would pause at calling it simpler than pharmacology. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/98 "2003-05-02T19:37:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I want to be rich! Help me be rich! Get a job with Glenn Doman. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/99 "2003-05-02T19:41:20Z")
> [@](#): > > If neither, why would you be so keen to attack the view that drugging children is a bad idea? Perhaps, because I do not believe that every person with Child Onset Diabetes should not be condemned to an early (and fairly painful) death? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-give-our-children-ridelin/171998/100 "2003-05-02T19:42:21Z")
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