How is this any less “virtuous” than similar “stand your ground” or “castle doctrines” in other societies that also permit immediate killing of trespassers and invaders if the invaded party believes they pose a serious threat?
If I want you to leave me the hell alone, the noble thing to do is to leave me the hell alone in spite of your strong desire to do otherwise.
I agree.
Point well taken with thanks.
I suppose a more useful question, EscAlaMike, is why do you think “we” are in any position to teach those virtues to the Sentinelese? Do you believe that “we” possess them in greater quantity? If so, what makes you think that?
Actually, they seem to do warning shots first. If the outsider doesn’t take the hint and leave then they shoot to kill.
I would too. But this is a case where I think the UDHR should be the guide of our actions.
That is, the UDHR doesn’t give us an excuse to invade the Sentinelese and forcibly “modernize” them so their children can have access to law degrees and air-conditioners and mojitos, but it does give us the obligation not to pry into their lives via spying devices without their knowledge or consent. Dammit.
I still don’t know who “we” are supposed to be.
What I personally would love to see happen is a group of humble and selfless Catholic missionaries to go in and teach them the Catholic faith which includes the classical virtues. They would have to first be familiar with Sentinelese customs and beliefs so that they could build on them and show how they are redeemed and fulfilled in the Gospel of Christ.
It’s probably too much to ask though, but maybe someday.
Because nobody is attacking their huts. It would be akin to firing on anyone scaling a border fence.
In the first place, as others have pointed out, the Sentinelese initially warn off invaders and only resort to lethal force when they refuse to retreat. In the second place, the Sentinelese don’t have anywhere near the means of evaluating and protecting themselves against threat levels without using lethal force that modern developed nations do.
To compare the islanders’ hostile rebuffs of completely mysterious alien invaders to the barbarity of a modern technologically advanced nation murdering trespassers with whom it can easily communicate, and that it knows pose no serious threat to it, is ludicrous.
If the Sentinelese at any point want such missionaries to “go in and teach them” Catholic customs and beliefs in exchange for being taught about Sentinelese ones, I’d have no problem with that. But until and unless the Sentinelese express interest in that direction, Catholic missionaries and everybody else should leave them the hell alone.
And of course, if the missionaries upon request explain their beliefs about other people’s cultures being “redeemed and fulfilled in the Gospel of Christ” and the Sentinelese happen to think it’s bullshit, then the missionaries should shut the hell up about it.
Kids are forced to go to school every day around the world. Most hate it, but most go. A few do learn while they are there.
Don’t confuse a good idea with a bad implementation.
These people? Who are the people who don’t want outside contact? The ones holding the spears pointing outwards that when the external ‘threat’ is over point the spears inwards? Maybe, just maybe, there are people there who don’t own spears who, if they knew they could ask for help, would ask for help.
Your concerns for the possible hypothetical suffering of these people is noted.
What’s your plan for helping them?
Going in and shooting everyone who shoots at you, and then hauling the survivors back to a refugee camp on the mainland, where they can be lovingly cared for for the rest of their days.
Dude, you can’t fix this. You can only end the horrible suffering of these people by their extinction.
Do guys know that around the world there are millions of people living in refugee camps? What’s your plan to bring the wonders of modern civilization to the millions of kids displaced by war?
Our appetite for helping kids in Sudan or Afghanistan or Syria or Nigeria or Venezuela or Guatemala or Yemen is pretty fucking limited, isn’t it? But I guess the notion of some hypothetical people that could be saved from their savage lifestyle is easier on the imagination than helping kids we can actually see.
If you want to convert people to Christianity, might I suggest Denmark? Turns out Europe is a post-Christian society. Plenty of hellbound souls over in France. Or try your luck proselytizing in Pakistan or to our good friends in Saudi Arabia. I also hear New York City is Satan’s hell pit, that’s a good place to go if you’re looking to save some souls.
In other words, learn about their religion and culture so you can destroy it and replace it with your own. Gotcha.
You do realize that people of other faiths might find that offensive, yes?
But, of course, in your own mind this everything from offending others to destroying their culture and replacing it with your own is OK because your culture and religion is so superior to everyone else’s?
You do realize that people of other faiths might find your arrogant sense of superiority offensive, yes/
How would you feel if someone came to your home, refused to leave, and insisted you give up YOUR faith in favor of theirs, because they believe their right and their rightness overrides your right to be left alone to live your own life?
You mean, the very *epitome *of prudence?
Why can’t we just leave people alone? What’s so hard about that? My view is that those who possess disproportionate power have a greater ethical responsibility to use it justly. It’s our responsibility to exercise restraint, not theirs. If they overreact or become hyper-aggressive, they might occasionally kill a dumb misguided wayward seafarer. If we overreact, we can wipe out their entire culture right out of existence. Shit, we don’t even have to fire a shot. Being in close proximity can achieve that by exposing them to diseases against which they have no immunity. Seems to me these islanders have figured out that just being near us can get them killed.
You do appreciate, of course, that close contact with people from the outside world poses a significant risk of disease. Not simply a sniffle here or there, but a population destroying epidemic.
They are far more justified in killing a visitor than homeowner in the States is justified in killing a burglar.
Not at all. True religion does not destroy culture, it enhances it. Christianity does not “destroy” other religions, it fulfills and completes them.
Irrelevant. Truth is truth, whether someone finds it offensive or not.
Again, nobody is talking about destroying anything. The Catholic faith is superior to all other faiths because it is true. If I didn’t believe that, then why would I be Catholic?
I disagree that I am being arrogant. If I have found a better way of living, and I share that better way with others, and they are offended by that, then it’s their problem, not mine.
But that’s not what we’re talking about. I’m not talking about anyone “refusing to leave” or insisting that anyone give up anything.
You have clearly never touched a history book.
… which is exactly what colonizers have been saying for 2000 years as they raped, pillaged, and burned their way across the continents. And in every single case, they thought they were doing the natives a “favor” by introducing them to the one true religion (or doctrine, or education, or whatever). They believed so strongly that what they were doing was right that it made them insensate to the suffering they inflicted.
Congratulations, I suppose. You have reached Christianity’s logical extreme: The self-assured satisfaction that you are so definitely right that it has killed your ability to empathize with the people you intend to “help.”
Do humanity a favor and read a history book sometime.
Bullshit. Your religion wants to annihilate mine. Your religion wants to eliminate all other religions than your own. That is inherently destructive.
Your “truth” is based on a bunch of myths from bronze-aged shepherds appended to by a bunch of Middle-Eastern folks from around the time of the Roman Empire, all of it written down in a book that is full of contradictions and an allegedly merciful god committing and inspiring atrocities. Your Popes have had to revise theology and doctrine over the centuries as human curiosity and science have revealed actual truths about the universe.
Your belief does not make anything true or untrue.
The mere fact you think a bunch of bronze-age myths is the hot-line to Truth and you hold that out to be superior to any other religion or lack of same demonstrates your arrogance.
And that attitude has been used to justify the slaughter of millions over the centuries. So much for your “merciful” god.
Your religion would insist that I give up my many gods for your one god. It would insist that I give up my rituals and observances even as it continues to celebrate those stolen from others and warped into its own mold. It would insist that I condemn unapproved forms of love that hurt no one else, that I put the life of a ball of cells above the life of an adult woman, that we force people to remain in bad marriages. I find all too many aspects of it to be repugnant. Not the least of which is your determination to force other people to convert, either by harassment or the sword, instead of just leaving us alone to live our own lives without interference.
I will admit you folks have composed some great music, though, and build some nice buildings. Pity how many other peoples’ sacred spots you razed to build churches on, though.