# Should we just de-brand Christmas as Yule? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 24, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281 "2015-12-24T18:40:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/21 "2015-12-25T03:55:29Z")
Yule (jul) is an ancient Scandinavian Norse-religion mid-winter feast. Why do you want to replace one religious feast with another religious feast, neither of which have anything to do with secularism or atheism? If you want your own holiday why don’t you go make your own holiday instead of rebranding other people’s religious feasts? I suggest Bob’s Day to be held every year the 17 Feb. But there are already have many secular traditions. Like World Cup, Olympic Games, royal coronations, presidental elections, Black Friday, Thanksgiving, New Years celebration, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/22 "2015-12-25T05:17:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is a great idea. I suggest you tackle this head on, and make it your mission in life. Report back annually on your progress. You mean he should keep records of his activities and progress and compile them into reports? He should keep a … yule log? ---
**Author:** ![Keln](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Keln](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keln)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/23 "2015-12-25T05:22:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You mean he should keep records of his activities and progress and compile them into reports? > He should keep a … yule log? Haha! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/24 "2015-12-25T05:58:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You mean he should keep records of his activities and progress and compile them into reports? > He should keep a … yule log? Yep. He should keep in between his knees! ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/25 "2015-12-25T09:24:23Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I argued in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=778858), as I’ve being doing for years IRL, that Christmas is already a secular holiday that I (an atheist) will pass down to my kids (hopefully atheists, but who knows). I believe that treating Christmas as a secular holiday is more honest than rebranding every office Christmas party as a “holiday party,” which I believe is simply a way for Christians to maintain Christmas as a religious holiday while still giving the appearance of being inclusive. > > This idea doesn’t seem to get much traction anywhere, even in the halls of the dope. How would y’all feel about taking baby Jesus out of it altogether and going back to calling it Yule? Could we have Yule parties without being accused of excluding people? It seems like an idea doomed to failure but I’m curious what others think. It’s certainly[not a new idea](http://americanhumanist.org/HNN/details/2012-12-out-with-christmas-in-with-yule) but it hasn’t seemed to get any widespread press. You are more than welcome to join the party everyone is welcome but if you are not happy you can always carry on as normal and go to work. Have a happy Winter/Summer Festival ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/26 "2015-12-25T14:00:22Z")
Just say Merry Christmas in a secular way… As an atheist, I still say “Goodbye” to people, even though it is derived from “God Be With You” that meaning has been lost. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/27 "2015-12-25T16:21:33Z")
For most people, I’d say ‘yule’ is synonymous with Christmas, anyway, so this would be just a change that isn’t a change. For those that don’t, you’ll successfully piss off the majority of both sides. Those who celebrate Yule, and not Christmas (neo-pagans of the Germanic Revivalist stripe, frex), you’re further legitimizing the Christian hijacking of their holiday. For those who celebrate Christmas, not Yule, this is a total ‘War on Christmas’ moment. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/28 "2015-12-25T16:40:42Z")
And for those of us who celebrate neither, it’s just annoying. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/29 "2015-12-25T16:59:55Z")
> [@Keln](#): > > I find it amusing that there are people who reject Christmas (as well as other Christian themes) in western culture and seek to replace it with things like Yule, which itself was a religious event that is: > > 1. Even older than Christmas, so arguably less relevant to modern culture. > 2. Generally applicable to Germanic peoples and not all Europeans. > 3. A pagan “holiday” with some rather bizarre rites compared to traditional Christmas (such as animal sacrifices like slaughtering the sacred boar and hunts). > > And, if we must be technical about it, the chosen date of Christmas was never intended to replace Yule…that happened organically as Germans converted over centuries. December 25th (or thereabouts) was chosen by the Romans to replace their original festival of Saturnalia. > > Recognizable Christian holidays and Christian themes are a part of western culture and traditions and has been for the better part of a thousand years. And for a long time now it has also been an accepted idea in western culture that you don’t have to be a Christian or even religious to take part in these traditions, nor do you have to take part in them at all if you don’t wish to. > > The idea that there should be some concerted effort to sanitize our own culture because a minority of people are offended by Christian themes seems strange and rather pointless. > > Being a Christian myself, I obviously view Christmas through a lens of religion, but it is also a secular holiday within the context of our culture. I think having both sides of that, the secular and the religious, inherently makes it an all-inclusive holiday where it isn’t strange for an atheist or even a Jew to celebrate it. And I think it is very important for a culture to have things like holidays that are somewhat universally celebrated, even if we all can’t agree on religion. Every Christmas people talk about Saturnalia or some other winter-solstice festival. Christmas can’t have been made to be Dec 25 to replace 5 or 6 unrelated (religiously speaking) festivals. Hence, every year, I [re-post this article about the date of Christmas](http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v#) being unrelated to mid-winter festivals. Of course, some celebrations have become part of Chistmas, but even those that look obvious, like trees, have more than one possible explantaion. As to the OP, Yule makes even less sense for an atheist/non-Christian to be associated with. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/30 "2015-12-25T17:04:33Z")
Keln: > [@](#): > > Christmas’ cultural significance goes far beyond it’s religious roots. It is a “thing we do” like all cultures have “things they do” How so? Christmas is an “American Holiday” simply because most Americans are Christians. It’s a “thing we (sic) do” because the overwhelming majority of “we” are Christians. I don’t doubt that there are non-Christians who enjoy the wintry trappings that have become the American Christmas experience, but none of that would exist at all if not for the existence of the Christian holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/31 "2015-12-25T17:49:10Z")
Well, if Christians didn’t celebrate Christmas (and it’s only relatively recently that they started), maybe Americans would have glommed onto Chanukkah, since it fills a similar consumerist role of encouraging lots of gift-buying and -giving. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/32 "2015-12-25T17:57:02Z")
Bryan Ekers: > [@](#): > > …Chanukkah, since it fills a similar consumerist role of encouraging lots of gift-buying and -giving… It never did, until it started being associated with the Christmas season in America. The tradition of Chanukkah “gelt”, i.e., gifts of money, has a long history, but it’s only in the last century, in America, that that got transformed into the consumerist gifts of “stuff”. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/33 "2015-12-25T17:58:02Z")
It’s ridiculous to expect citizens celebrating a holiday so enshrined in our diverse nations culture while also keeping ‘Christ’ in Christmas. Santa is ‘Buddy Christ’ any way. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/34 "2015-12-25T18:10:36Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I believe that treating Christmas as a secular holiday is more honest than rebranding every office Christmas party as a “holiday party,” which I believe is simply a way for Christians to maintain Christmas as a religious holiday while still giving the appearance of being inclusive. Oddly we managed to celebrate Christmas in my office without the need to sanitize it for your approval. We held fund raisers to sponsor various charities and supported our fellow workers who became seriously ill. Atheists can celebrate the birth of Jesus and give of themselves without any religious belief system. Occasional one of them will burst into flames but it’s pretty rare. Usually they just see the benefit of helping others. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/35 "2015-12-25T18:11:01Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Bryan Ekers: > > It never did, until it started being associated with the Christmas season in America. The tradition of Chanukkah “gelt”, i.e., gifts of money, has a long history, but it’s only in the last century, in America, that that got transformed into the consumerist gifts of “stuff”. I’m not sure I’d credit Christmas with what you’re describing, but it’s not like Americans (or humans in general, really) need much of an excuse to take things to excess. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/36 "2015-12-25T18:13:02Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Bryan Ekers: > > It never did, until it started being associated with the Christmas season in America. The tradition of Chanukkah “gelt”, i.e., gifts of money, has a long history, but it’s only in the last century, in America, that that got transformed into the consumerist gifts of “stuff”. Because in the past money was used to light fires or even out table legs? You jumped the shark on that one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/37 "2015-12-25T18:13:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Atheists can celebrate the birth of Jesus and give of themselves without any religious belief system. Occasional one of them will burst into flames but it’s pretty rare. And when they do, it makes a way cool Christmas display!! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/38 "2015-12-26T04:40:20Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Hell, what I call Christmas has presents, food, drink, family and friends, Santa Claus, reindeer, snowmen, snow flakes, a tree, coloured lights, etc. All of this with no trace of religion. Just as my Easter revolves around chocolate, decorating eggs, and the Easter Bunny. From my experience living in Canada and the US I’d say that there are large swaths of people who celebrate both holidays with no hint of the religious trappings. Why should we change the name when this is working fine for us? Amen, pun intended. We had a great Christmas. Kids opening presents, a huge dinner for 12, tree, ugly sweaters, the works and no mention of religion, not one word. And we all call it Christmas. The idea of Christmas being celebrated as a largely secular holiday is a very old one indeed. Dickens’ “A Christmas Carol” is what, 150 years old? How much religion is in it? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/39 "2015-12-26T06:04:26Z")
At least the OP won’t be one of those people who gets confused when someone talks about cultural Muslim/Jewsish atheists. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281/40 "2015-12-26T06:30:56Z")
I say we re-brand Merry Christmas as Merry Boobsday—a day when all women the world over flash their boobs to one and all. Who wouldn’t find that a merry holiday? …well, I guess the merriment wouldn’t include gay men…ok, back to the drawing board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-just-de-brand-christmas-as-yule/741281.md?page=3)