# Should we Mourn the death of Olivia de Havilland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2020, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455 "2020-07-27T06:54:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/82 "2020-07-27T10:14:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > My best guess at this point is that the OP is attempting to mock a caricature of what they believe “cancel culture” to be - I.e., “this celebrated actress was in a movie 80 years ago which in retrospect had some problematic themes, therefore she was **EVIL** and must be completely erased from history”. Proving once again that conservatives don’t make good comedians. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/83 "2020-07-27T11:06:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Hugo Weaving played a Nazi in the film _Captain America: The First Avenger._ Hugo Weaving played a drag queen in Priscilla. Is there no end to the depravity of this man? Does he seek out these roles or is he just miscast and in need of a new agent? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/84 "2020-07-27T11:29:02Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > 10 bucks to anyone who answers the Elia Kazan question 9.8 meters per second squared. Now that I’ve given my answer, kindly arrange payment of my prize. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/85 "2020-07-27T11:31:38Z")
well I guess I’ll need a PayPal account or something. I’m assuming that’s the correct answer. I didn’t really look it up before hand. But I’m sure you are honest ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/86 "2020-07-27T11:37:00Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > Can Elia Kazan be honored at the Oscars? Yes. This is gonna cost you. CMC ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/87 "2020-07-27T11:37:27Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > The southerners in GWTW were the HEROES, they were noble honest people, doing their best to save themselves from the horrible Union. This horrible racist propaganda was propagated by Hollywood, not only the Studios, but the Directors, Producers, and yes the Actors. Dammit, there goes Buster Keaton. _The General_ was such a good film too but I guess I better go burn the DVD now. > [@kswiss](#): > > Slavery is just a problematic theme? Okay. Who said “just”? ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/88 "2020-07-27T11:37:54Z")
“Great debate” folks. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/89 "2020-07-27T13:06:46Z")
The problem isn’t that GWTW “deals with” slavery and that that’s “problematic”. The problem is that the movie glorifies slavery and the whole society that was built on slavery as if it is the bee’s knees and how tragic it is that these noble, strong, dedicated southern Whites, the best humanity had to offer, fell from their pedestal. Imagine if you will a romantic tragedy about an S.S. captain. The movie doesn’t go into much detail about said S.S. captain’s job – after all the movie is about his romance with a wealthy influential woman in the Reich. But this S.S. captain is presented as noble, wise, and honorable, and the task he does – ie exterminating Jews and other minorities – is just glanced over as a difficult but honorable thing he has to do to preserve the wonderful society of the third Reich. That’s basically how GWTW presents slavers and the society they built. Of course, half of our society apparently still salivates when they think of how wondrous the South was and how tragic the Lost Cause was, so who knows? Maybe Gone with the Reich would be a blockbuster as well. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/90 "2020-07-27T13:17:34Z")
We tear down statues of known racists who fought for keeping racism. For the love of god can’t people make that distinction? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/91 "2020-07-27T13:52:46Z")
The people who cannot make the distinction are the same fools who say that all lives matter. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/92 "2020-07-27T13:57:18Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Yes: we can mourn the death of Olivia de Havilland. Absolutely. Go for it, 100%. Yes, we grant permission for her to be acknowledged by the Oscars. We have no problem with that at all. Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/93 "2020-07-27T13:57:24Z")
I’ll never get tired of conservative gotcha attempts. AH HA, HERE IS A PERSON WHO WAS IN A MOVIE WITH SLAVERY AND IS THEREFORE, BY LOGIC WHICH I HAVE INVENTED AND THEN ASCRIBED TO YOU, EQUIVALENT TO ROBERT E LEE. YOUR MOVE, SNOWFLAKES. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/94 "2020-07-27T13:57:45Z")
They don’t?? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/95 "2020-07-27T14:00:24Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > They don’t? _Sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/96 "2020-07-27T14:15:01Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > We tear down statues of known racists who fought for keeping racism. For the love of god can’t people make that distinction? Who’s we? This isn’t a movement with identifiable leadership, and not everyone is going to agree on which statues should stay and which should go. For example: [https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/19/us/portland-george-washington-statue-toppled-trnd/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/19/us/portland-george-washington-statue-toppled-trnd/index.html) Plus the American BLM movement has spread to other countries, where the US Civil War isn’t of any relevance, and protesters are forming their own criteria for which statues (and media) are removed. It really isn’t nearly as straightforward an issue as you make it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/97 "2020-07-27T14:19:27Z")
Oh no! They tore down a statue of George Washington? Now the ancestors are gonna be angry – we need to appease them. Quick, make a burnt offering to His Holiness George Washington and the other Founding Fathers to avert their anger before their wrath falls upon us! ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/98 "2020-07-27T14:25:13Z")
LOL, it’s great you Americans are finally seeing the light and pulling down statues to those traitors. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/99 "2020-07-27T14:30:17Z")
Then again, a supporting role in GWTW is _ONE_ thing that Dame Olivia performed in, in a career that spanned 1935-1988. What if you prefer to think of her instead as Maid Marian? To those who say _“I’ve never seen/read GWTW, is it really that bad?”_ It is part of the romantization of the Antebellum and the Lost Cause that was popular in that part of the 20th Century, AND a very well produced, written and acted piece by the standards of the 1930s. No, you don’t _have_ to invest the time to see it but _if you do_, try to educate yourself first about where it’s coming from. It resulted in the first acting Academy Award to an African-American, though of course for a role that now makes people cringe, and it would be 24 years to the next one. > [@kswiss](#): > > Can Elia Kazan be honored at the Oscars? Just so we can have a factual datum: he was, in 1999; and the year he passed away he _was_ put in the memorial tribute montage. As was Leni Riefenstahl who also died that year. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/100 "2020-07-27T14:32:56Z")
(And seriously GWTW may be a piece of blatant pro-Slavery pro-Southern propaganda – sorry, a well made piece of propaganda – but that doesn’t mean we need to completely shun any actor that had anything to do with it). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/101 "2020-07-27T14:38:36Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > did you read this? I’ve seen a handful of threads from you. Your threads are just about impossible to follow when half of your posts _sound_ like a reply to something that someone said, but you’re only quoting yourself. If I, IRL, walked into a room and asked you a question and you looked over at someone else and said “Didn’t you hear me the first three times?”. Well, the other person doesn’t know WTF you’re talking about and I didn’t get an answer to my question. Bickering with yourself is rarely going to be an effective strategy for convincing other’s that their point of view is wrong and yours is right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455.md?page=6)