# Should we Mourn the death of Olivia de Havilland **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2020, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455 "2020-07-27T06:54:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/142 "2020-07-27T16:59:22Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Seems like all the principles go by the wayside as soon as it’s convenient… Only the ones that you’ve invented and hung onto your strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/143 "2020-07-27T17:00:43Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > why does everyone on this message board always leap straight to government control as a solution? What is _your_ solution to consumers refusing to buy art they don’t approve of? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/144 "2020-07-27T17:03:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > How about my second paragraph? If Polish Netflix removed all shows with gay characters, would you shrug and say “the decision was be made by the rightful owners of the material because they felt like it, and they didn’t have to ask you or anyone else about it”? It happens. There is a Netflix show called _Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj_ and, quoting Wikipedia, “On January 1, 2019, it was reported that the episode “Saudi Arabia” had been removed from Netflix’s service in [Saudi Arabia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia) after the country’s [Communications and Information Technology Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_and_Information_Technology_Commission_(Saudi_Arabia)) issued a request to the company to take it down over concerns regarding its content, which included criticism of Crown Prince [Mohammad bin Salman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_bin_Salman) and the [Saudi-led military campaign in Yemen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian-led_intervention_in_Yemen). However, the episode was still available in the country at the time of the report through the show’s official YouTube channel.” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/145 "2020-07-27T17:04:04Z")
Because you’re advocating that private companies somehow not be allowed to make decisions about what intellectual property they will host. If not governmental action, how would that be enforced? Do I like companies removing stuff I might want to watch? Of course not. They removed an episode of community where one of the characters used blackface to cosplay as a Dark Elf. I think that’s stupid. But I recognize that it’s not censorship for a company to take down they don’t want to host anymore. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/146 "2020-07-27T17:21:13Z")
I didn’t say I had a solution, I just said it isn’t unreasonable for people to be concerned about it. Just because corporations are doing the censoring rather than government doesn’t mean it can’t have bad implications for society. I’m really surprised to see so much support for unrestrained capitalism among supposed liberals. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/147 "2020-07-27T17:23:28Z")
> [@](#): > > And here I thought this thread was going to be “Should we mourn the death of Olivia de Havilland, since after all we’ve all got to go some time, and 104 is a pretty good showing in the Not Dying Olympics. Go Liv!” Me, too! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/148 "2020-07-27T17:28:47Z")
Of course, if you wish. She was one of the few links to a distant and romantic Hollywood era. The fact that some films are seen differently decades later does not change their historical relevance. She was a great actress. Often far more productive and educational to add contextual notes than to ignore or edit what has happened. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/149 "2020-07-27T17:35:09Z")
I (personally) do tend to support intellectual property rights and that copyright owners get to control their property. If you (not you personally, the universal “you”) want access to intellectual property, buy the rights - or convince the current owner to let you access it (with money or the promise of corporate goodwill or a combination of both) and you can access it. If you want to limit access, buy the rights or convince the current owner to limit access (again with money or the promise of corporate goodwill or a combination of both) and then no one can. Just to keep my liberal cred - the IP owner should have to pay taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/150 "2020-07-27T17:36:04Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I’m really surprised to see so much support for unrestrained capitalism among supposed liberals. Cite that any “supposed liberal” in this thread has supported “unrestrained capitalism.” Also, please provide your definition of “unrestrained capitalism.” ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/151 "2020-07-27T17:38:15Z")
I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I agree that they should have the right to do it. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/152 "2020-07-27T17:44:10Z")
Can anyone explain to me why lobbying or voting for a government to make a work unavailable is bad, but petitioning or boycotting a company to make a work unavailable is just fine? And one billionaire buying up the property rights to make it unavailable is also not a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/153 "2020-07-27T17:53:59Z")
Because when the government does it, they are exceeding the limited and very specific powers accorded to them by the Constitution of the United States of America. ETA: it’s OK for you to lobby the government. What would be unconstitutional is the government acceding to your demands. When a private company does it, it’s free market economics at its finest. Plus, the courts have ruled that the company is a person with a First Amendment right to free speech. If you don’t like it, your should exercise your First Amendment right to free speech and speak up. If enough like-minded people do this the company may change their position. If you can’t find enough like-minded people, that’s a reflection on your position. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/154 "2020-07-27T17:54:57Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Can anyone explain to me why lobbying or voting for a government to make a work unavailable is bad The government censoring a work or art is an _actual_ infringement on our constitutional rights. > [@DemonTree](#): > > but petitioning or boycotting a company to make a work unavailable is just fine? And one billionaire buying up the property rights to make it unavailable is also not a problem? A business deciding not to let the general public have access to something they own isn’t an infringement on our rights. To suggest otherwise would be similar to me saying every picture on your phone MUST be accessible by anyone that wants to see it any time. Should you be required to post a copy of every picture and video you have to a public website where we can all pick through it? Also, keep in mind that the government censoring GWTW could mean you can’t even sit at home and watch the DVD of it you own. The way it currently stands, there’s nothing illegal about watching the movie, they just aren’t streaming/broadcasting it anymore. It’s the difference between risking legal problems for watching vs…well, nothing. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/155 "2020-07-27T17:58:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …who are you talking too? Himself. That’s the whole point here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/156 "2020-07-27T18:03:53Z")
Seriously? Terrible logic. Look, the film being racist is not her fault, especially as in 1939 the film would not seem all that racist. Next of course, since she made it to 104, we shouldnt mourn her, we should celebrate her life. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/157 "2020-07-27T18:13:50Z")
There **is** a debate here, however- **should GwtW be “banned”, because it is, of course, racist?** By banned, I mean not shown commonly, nor DVDs be sold- of course TCM (etc) could show it, with a discussion of exactly how racist it is. I think so- but of course a voluntary ban, not enforced by the government. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/158 "2020-07-27T18:15:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Seriously? Terrible logic. Look, the film being racist is not her fault, especially as in 1939 the film would not seem all that racist. He doesn’t believe it himself, as can clearly be seen [in this flagged post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/olivia-de-havilland-dies-at-104/916400/27) ( just click on “view ignored content”). Which he made before he created this thread. As noted above he’s fishing for perceived hypocrisy to prove some jaundiced point about “cancel culture.” It’s a bit of silliness that’s truly not worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/159 "2020-07-27T18:24:44Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I didn’t say I had a solution, I just said it isn’t unreasonable for people to be concerned about it. Your concern is noted. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/160 "2020-07-27T19:02:59Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The amount of times I see “This content is not available in your location” tends to disagree with you. Which is almost never about censorship, and almost always about regional broadcast rights. So, not remotely relevant to this conversation, as I must imagine you knew when you wrote that. > [@](#): > > How about my second paragraph? If Polish Netflix removed all shows with gay characters, would you shrug and say “the decision was be made by the rightful owners of the material because they felt like it, and they didn’t have to ask you or anyone else about it”? Recognizing that someone has a right to do something isn’t the same as not criticizing them for how they exercise that right. I support laws protecting free speech. That doesn’t mean that when a Nazi gets up on his soapbox, I’m logically required to shrug and say, “It’s his right to say that.” Yes, it’s his right to say that, and it’s my right to call him out for being a piece of shit. If Netflix pulls all gay content from it’s Polish streaming service, that is absolutely their right to do so. I can still criticize Netflix for giving in to homophobes, and I can criticize whatever Polish entities pushed for their removal as bigoted shitheads. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-mourn-the-death-of-olivia-de-havilland/916455/161 "2020-07-27T19:05:09Z")
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