# Should we remake swine with omega-3 fatty acids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994 "2006-03-26T20:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/21 "2006-03-27T20:13:15Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Uh… someone has NOT read his Ray Bradbury. You’re right there. Did he steal my idea in the past? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/22 "2006-03-27T22:39:00Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > …they are purposefully “dosing” the human population with a chemical designed to have certain health benefits. While the risk for side effects from omega-3 might be slight (if there are any), they are still foisting a chemical onto people who might not be all that hot about accepting it into their bodies. Should these piggies ever be approved as safe for human consumption, it’s not at all clear to me how anyone should feel compelled to eat them if they don’t want to. I imagine for many years the product will be clearly labelled as GM. As for the safety of omega-3 fatty acids, they’re an essential part of the human diet which we used to consume in abundance. So did the animals we ate in far less abundance than we do now. Just to give a single example, compounds like alpha-linoleic acid (in its conjugated form) were once available in 5-10x the concentrations one commonly finds in beef today, because now cows are typically raised on a diet heavy in feed instead of grasses. What’s interesting about some forms of these poly-unsaturated fatty acids is that they’re natural ligands for transcription factors that regulate genes involved in fatty acid beta-oxidation. The upshot of this is that consuming the right kinds of fats can even ramp up fat metabolism in tissues like muscle, which is a Good Thing vs. having it stored in adipose tissue or floating around in bad forms and gumming up your arteries. It’d be nice to have a cheap supply of free-range beef for everyone, but that’s not feasible. It would be better for everyone to eschew animal flesh almost entirely, and instead eat plant sources of polyunsaturates (which are often in just the right ratios for healthful human consumption), but people like their meat. If the ratio of polyunsaturates in animals can be altered genetically, it’s not unreasonable to suspect they could be more like free-range animals in the essential-fatty-acid content of their meat, or even better, like fish. It could be an economical means of providing consumers with a healthier version of something they seem quite intent on eating whether its better for them or not. I’d say the jury is still quite out on many of these questions and hypotheses, and deep suspicion isn’t presently justified. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/23 "2006-03-28T01:07:29Z")
> [@sailorspook](#): > > 1980 Diamond v. Chakrabarty > Prior to 1980, life forms were considered a part of nature and were not patentable. Diamond v. Chakrabarty changed this with the 5 to 4 U.S. Supreme Court decision that genetically engineered (modified) bacteria were patentable because they did not occur naturally in nature. In this case, Chakrabarty had modified a bacteria to create an oil-dissolving bioengineered microbe. > > Since Diamond v. Chakrabarty, patents have been issued on whole genes whose function is known. More recently, inventors began to seek patents on sequences of DNA that were less than a whole gene. The Patent Office has developed guidelines on how to deal with these fragments since they often do not have a known function. Having done a small amount of molecular biology, I can say I agree that recombinant (i.e. engineered… so perhaps enhanced-GFP would be patentable while regular ol’ GFP would not be) genes, enzymes, and organisms should be patentable–but patenting naturally occurring genes doesn’t seem alright to me. You can’t patent, I don’t know, _T. rex_ just because you discovered the bones, can you? People may have done work to discover them, but they sure as hell didn’t create them. Patenting on gene fragments (I assume expressed sequence tags?) seems even sillier. Can anyone give me a good reason why they should be? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/24 "2006-03-28T16:02:59Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > …cows are typically raised on a diet heavy in feed instead of grasses… Cite? (Preferably not from a vegan-propaganda source.) Because all the beef cattle in these parts are out grazing in pastures. It would be cost-prohibitive to raise them on a grain diet. They may get some small amount of grain supplements in the winter, and some when they are being fattened for the slaughter, but mostly they eat grass. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/25 "2006-03-28T16:52:26Z")
I was going to correct **sailorspook** about patenting (as opposed to copyrighting) but he found my Diamond quote. Good job! So, all I’ave got is this: > [@chrisk](#): > > I’m not against it, but I think this first attempt might just result in a lot of pigs dying. Well, then, that’s more bacon for me. Mmm…bacon. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/26 "2006-03-28T17:05:52Z")
> [@mazinger\_z](#): > > Well, then, that’s more bacon for me. Mmm…bacon. I hope you like bacon that tastes like anchovies! 🙂 Seriously, though, is there any indication that this stuff doesn’t taste funny? Remember that fat substitute from 15 years or so ago? It was supposed to be a miracle substance, but it just didn’t sit well on the pallate. I remember trying some potato chips made with the stuff— yuk!! ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/27 "2006-03-31T21:53:11Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Cite? (Preferably not from a vegan-propaganda source.) [Here’s](http://www.farmprofitability.org/research/beef/linoleic.htm) one I found. I can’t find the original source (which was also crazy-Birkenstock-wearin’-tree-huggin’-vegan-fad-diet-pushin’-type free), and I haven’t had much time lately to post, so I hope this will suffice. Table 2 is interesting (scroll down), though I must admit to only skimming here. Given that brief skim, I’m not sure modified pigs would provide much conjugated alpha-linoleic acid (typically these references don’t specifiy that it’s the omega-3 vsn. that’s important), as it appears you need bacteria in the gut of ruminants to conjugate consumed alpha-linoleic acid (forgot all about that). So, if, say, gamma-LA were converted to alpha-LA in the tissues of the pig, it would still not be in its conjugated form. So, maybe that’s a bad example, even if they raise some transgenic cows with the same abilities as these pigs. That said, there are other purported benefits to having a good ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 long-chain fatty acids. It’s important for all of us to be mindful, I think, of the somewhat tenuous scientific basis for the sundry omega-3 hypotheses. Of course, nearly everything we think we know about what we should eat is on shakey scientific ground, unfortunately. The purported health benefits of the good omega-3:omega-6 ratio has better evidential support, IMO, than a fair percentage of the crap we’ve been told by the “experts” about healthy diets. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/28 "2006-03-31T21:57:22Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I hope you like bacon that tastes like anchovies! 🙂 While these pigs’ meat might taste different, I don’t think it will taste like fish, or much like anything else, except maybe “weird pork”. Olive and flax-seed oil isn’t especially fishy (the latter doesn’t have much flavor at all, IMO), nor are walnuts, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/29 "2006-03-31T22:10:47Z")
I’m curious in general about the mistrust of the motives for this study. Why the suspicion? There appears to be this notion that agribusiness ventures are attempting once again to subvert the laws of nature and force-feed us needless and unhealthy GM food purely for profit. As these pigs are the result of a colaboration between the U. of MO and Harvard, I’m not even sure if and how agribusiness is involved; and the motives apparently were largely proof-of-principle, as well as to study the physiological effects of these altered fat ratios on pig heath (which is of considerable scientific interest, pig being an excellent model oranism of human disease). Commercial interests are getting all the press, but that’s all highly speculative. There’s a huge list of unknowns about the commercial viability of such a product, as well as the biological viability of the omega-3 pigs. It’s entirely possibile these little piggies will never make it to the supermarket, and I don’t see much evidence that’s what the researchers were really after when they cloned these guys. What gives? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/30 "2006-04-01T00:25:01Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.farmprofitability.org/research/beef/linoleic.htm) one I found. I hate to hijack the thread, and I hate to nitpick, but that cite does not support your earlier statement that “cows are typically raised on a diet heavy in feed instead of grasses”. The cite is talking about “_finishing_” cattle on grain – in other words, feeding them grain at the end of their lives to fatten them for the slaughter (so consumers get that tasty marbled meat). The cows still spend most of their lives eating good old grass. Now there may well be health benefits to humans in removing grain _entirely_ from the diets of beef cattle. It’s just a pet peeve of mine that some vegan propagandists falsely state that beef cattle these days are typically raised on grain instead of grass. This just isn’t so. For the record, I’m not accusing you of intentionally making a false statement. I think you just may have missed the thrust of your source. Thus endeth the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/31 "2006-04-01T00:45:51Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I hope you like bacon that tastes like anchovies! 🙂 > > Seriously, though, is there any indication that this stuff doesn’t taste funny? Remember that fat substitute from 15 years or so ago? It was supposed to be a miracle substance, but it just didn’t sit well on the pallate. I remember trying some potato chips made with the stuff— yuk!! Are you talking about olestra? It was more like 8 years ago, or so. I never tried it-from what I heard, it just went right through you. For a lot of people, this meant a serious case of the shits. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/32 "2006-04-01T01:07:28Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Thus endeth the hijack. For the life of me, I cannot find my original source. I’ll keep looking. And you’re right, I only gave the cite provided a cursory look, and did not intend to deceive. I wonder if diets even supplemented with grain cause problems? A lot of feed is corn-based, and rich in fructose, which can increase liver fatty acid metabolism and cause dyslipidemia, at least in humans and rodents. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/33 "2006-04-01T01:14:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Are you talking about olestra? It was more like 8 years ago, or so. I never tried it-from what I heard, it just went right through you. For a lot of people, this meant a serious case of the shits. I got neither diarrhea nor disgust from olestra, but my intake was limited. My brother ate whole bag of olestra-saturated chips once over the course of about two hours, and he claims it gave him a near-explosive case of the squirts, along with excruciating cramps. I get that from sugar alcohols. That and a nostril-searing case of gas. Let’s face it: Real sugars and real fats have no perfect substitutes. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994/34 "2006-04-02T17:02:39Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Any living organism is an incredibly complex system of chemical interdependencies. Fish create omega-3 fatty acids because they serve some purpose in fish biology. Fish are very different from pigs. But see, if you replaced their fat with omega-3, then you could have cold-water pigs, which we presently don’t have. mmmmm… razorback caviar… mmmmmm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-remake-swine-with-omega-3-fatty-acids/349994.md?page=1)