# Should we seek to Disprove our past? They're already tackling Billy the Kid! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 28, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058 "2003-05-28T17:02:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kickback\_Joe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/cdc98d/32.png) [@Kickback\_Joe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kickback_Joe)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/21 "2003-05-29T14:52:30Z")
As a person who has family in Fort Sumner, New Mexico, where Billy’s Body supposed lies, I know there is a lot of discussion regarding this effort. It has put a very different slant on this years Old Fort Days. (June 11th - 14th) I will be there so if you are looking for something to do come on down and ask for Kickback\_Joe (they will know) at Freds Bar and I will buy you a beer or a Sasparilla. [Fort Sumner Chamber of Commerce](http://ftsumnerchamber.com/tourist.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/22 "2003-05-29T17:47:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Foolonthehill \* > \*\*Shroud of Turin was dated at less than 1000 yrs. old and the Church did not fall apart. Faith is not based on science and does not worry about what the secular world “knows.” \*\* The Catholic Church actually denounced the Turin shroud when it first was “discovered”. Of course, only the buffoonishly ignorant would think that this shroud was ever used as a foundation of Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/23 "2003-05-29T17:49:18Z")
It is not possible to disprove the past. It is only possible to disprove a model of the past. There is nothing wrong with testing and potentially disproving a model. Or should history be considered a form of religion instead of a science? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/24 "2003-05-30T03:16:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\* > > I for one was delighted when the fake Grand Duchess Anastasia was outed, due to DNA evidence. \*\* Ah, poor Anna Anderson-you know, she really did believe she was the Grand Duchess. Her stories were so outrageous, though. And Gleb Bodkin and his family pissed me off-Gleb Bodkin was not nearly as close to the family as he claimed to be, and moreover, his son in law claimed that the DNA was switched-it was part of some massive conspiracy. Dude, I don’t think so. And the fact that Grand Duchess Olga rejected her-Anastasia was like a daughter to her, and if she said it wasn’t her niece, then it wasn’t her niece. Of course, there’s all kinds of idiots claiming to be descended from Tsar Nicky. There’s one guy who claims to be his grandson from an illegitimate daughter who was conceived with Nicky’s own bastard half-sister! Um, yeah right. The guy’s a complete and utter mental case. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/25 "2003-05-30T05:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Antiquarian \* > \*\*Disproving lies. Is it a lie that a UFO crashed in Roswell in the 50’s? > \*\* Yeah, because the supposed crash occured in 1947. Early July, if I remember correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/26 "2003-05-30T06:07:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Disproving lies. Is it a lie that our history books say Lee Harvey Oswald worked alone? Does anybody actually believe he worked alone anymore? I can’t think of anybody I’ve ever heard say that. Frankly, I for one don’t even bother with theories about the JFK assassination at this point. Too much strange and confusing speculation out there. > [@](#): > > Is it a lie that a UFO crashed in Roswell in the 50’s? Uh… yes? Almost everyone believes this (I don’t have a cite, but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a huge number - if not a majority), but that doesn’t make it true. Cecil wrote about this, but regardless, I think it’s a load of crap. > [@](#): > > Whats written is what people believe, plain and simple. Often true, which is why we’re talking about finding out what the truth is and what it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/27 "2003-05-30T14:49:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Does anybody actually believe he worked alone anymore? I can’t think of anybody I’ve ever heard say that. Then you’ll hear it here first. I believe Lee Oswald, acting alone, shot and killed John F Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/28 "2003-05-30T15:29:45Z")
You must’ve read too many history textbooks. 😉 😉 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Antiquarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Antiquarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antiquarian)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/29 "2003-05-30T21:10:36Z")
**Marley** allow me to quote **Walter Sobechek** from the Big Lebowski - > [@](#): > > HAVE YOU ALL GONE CRAZY!! AM I THE ONLY ONE MAKING SENSE HERE!!!??? There is a vast amount of philosophy in this thread that some are picking up on, and some are not. You and quite a few other dopers are literalists. I am speaking meta-philosophically here. I simply wonder how much information in our history books/collective knowledge is real and valid, and how much is pure fabrication. Not only is the phenomena happening in the New York Times very recently, but some will even say [sub]the bible is pure fabrication[/sub]… Oh jeez I don’t want to start any crazy debates now. I’m home for the weekend, and my fiance would kill me if I spent it here… Anyway I’m happy to be here and I have plenty-debat’in goin on in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/30 "2003-05-31T02:02:39Z")
Billy the Kid, and Jessie James , were killed, they were too “bad” to have lived on without getting into further trouble. Same thing with the 3 that escaped Alcatraz, I seriously doubt that all 3 would not have had a run-in with the law had they really escaped and lived in San Francisco Bay. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/31 "2003-05-31T04:45:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Billy the Kid, and Jessie James , were killed, they were too “bad” to have lived on without getting into further trouble. This is most likely true of Jesse James (who continued to rob banks and trains–frequently being involved in cold-blooded murders–long after he had a enough loot and a ranch to enable him to go straight). I’m not sure that the same is true of Billy the Kid. John Wesley Hardin, arguably the most vicious gunfighter in the Old West, killed all of his victims before the age of 21, then moved out of Texas, living peacefully until he was captured by Texas Rangers in Florida. After his release from prison, he was involved in no more gunfights (or any serious trouble) until he was murdered by a law officer at age 42. Billy the Kid was not nearly the conscienceless killer that Hardin was at the same age. While I have no reason to doubt that the Kid was killed by Pat Garrett, if the Kid _had_ moved out of state, I could see him settling down and living peacefully. ---
**Author:** ![buckyogi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f17d59/32.png) [@buckyogi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buckyogi)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058/32 "2003-05-31T14:34:29Z")
I do not “believe” Oswald, acting alone, killed JFK. The word “believe” implies a leap of faith. I am convinced, based on the evidence, and beyond a reasonable doubt, that Oswald, acting alone, killed JFK. And officer Tippit too. Yet the so-called “conspiracy theories” surrounding JFK’s assassination are an exercise in myth-making similar to the one that created the myth of “Billy the Kid” and are an attempt to imbue meaningless events with meaning. It’s in our nature. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-seek-to-disprove-our-past-theyre-already-tackling-billy-the-kid/178058.md?page=1)