# Should we turn over fossils or other findings to scientists? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000 "2020-08-13T16:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/1 "2020-08-13T16:04:33Z")
I am a bit of a rockhound and collect fossils and such. I am on discussion boards with many other people who do the same. People find some pretty good things even here in Kansas like fossilized shark teeth, fish skeletons, mammoth, and dinosaur bones. I wonder, could we possibly and unknowingly, find a fossil of real scientific importance? Should we ever share our findings with say a university? The only regulations I’ve seen are not to disturb native american sites. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/2 "2020-08-13T16:34:13Z")
There’s a big regulation about private property. If you took it from someone else’s property then you stole it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/3 "2020-08-13T16:54:43Z")
“Even in Kansas”? Kansas is a _major_ fossil site, former site of a warm, shallow sea filled with life. That’s like saying they have coal “even in Newcastle”. [http://oceansofkansas.com/](http://oceansofkansas.com/) And it is _possible_ you may find an important fossil, but you are more likely to find Fossil Lemon Shark Tooth #37,842,983. Loose fossils in the [float](https://blogs.agu.org/georneys/2012/12/09/geology-word-of-the-week-f-is-for-float/) are especially not likely to be very useful. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/4 "2020-08-13T17:01:02Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > That’s like saying they have coal “even in Newcastle”. The last coal mines in Newcastle closed in the 1960s. Similarly, given the state of life in modern Kansas, I imagine it’s easy to forget its rich and diverse history. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/5 "2020-08-13T17:02:20Z")
I would think universities and other research institutions would be overburdened if every amateur fossil collector were required to turn over their findings to them. It’s possible, of course, that a private collector underestimates the importance of a find, which ends up in a private collection where serious science has no access to it, at least at first; examples are provided by some of the (few) [specimens of Archaeopteryx](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx#History_of_discovery), which were originally misclassified and ended up in private collections and weren’t identified as the sensation that they were until much later. But such cases are very rare, and in the vast majority of cases findings made by private collectors, though exciting to them, will have no value to serious research. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/6 "2020-08-13T17:20:42Z")
Why not find out which is the nearest university to the area in question that has an paleontology department, and ask them? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/7 "2020-08-13T18:02:36Z")
Exactly- I’d think you could take pictures and the paleontology department would be happy to look them over and see if they wanted to check any further. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/8 "2020-08-13T18:07:25Z")
They could at least tell you whether they wanted to see such pictures. It’s possible that this board actually includes a paleontologist with experience in what’s readily findable in Kansas; but it still makes more sense to me to ask the paleontology department than to ask us. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/9 "2020-08-13T18:17:56Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Exactly- I’d think you could take pictures and the paleontology department would be happy to look them over and see if they wanted to check any further. They aren’t. Their jobs are busy enough that they for the most part don’t have the time or inclination to tell someone they have an ordinary fossil (or even more likely an ordinary rock) and they are not about to become millionaires 200 times per day. [That is done mostly by hobbyists](http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/forum/14-fossil-id/). ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/10 "2020-08-13T18:28:00Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There’s a big regulation about private property. If you took it from someone else’s property then you stole it. That’s even true for public property like parks, right of way, and so on. Unless you actually own the property yourself, you shouldn’t be removing anything from it without permission. What might be useful is to record where you spot fossils and inform scientists. If it’s a unique or significant finding, they will go out and properly excavate it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/11 "2020-08-13T19:55:40Z")
I went on a “dig” with my college, in some slate or shale, looking for whole trilobites or whole fish. Our professors pointed out that such were so common that we were in no danger of destroying a important 'find". Now, bones are a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/12 "2020-08-13T21:56:49Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > That’s even true for public property like parks, right of way, and so on. Unless you actually own the property yourself, you shouldn’t be removing anything from it without permission. I’ll note here that the rules for public property vary and are worth checking. BLM land != Calvert Cliffs State Park. But yes, permission is best not assumed. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/13 "2020-08-14T17:03:10Z")
I don’t think being a scientist inherently give you more of a right to take stuff lying around than it does to anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/14 "2020-08-14T17:15:39Z")
I don’t think this is a risk with scientists. My understanding is that the environs of the fossil, what is embedded near it, what the topography was at the time the organism died, whether it was underwater or on dry land, etc. are as critical to the scientific investigation as the fossil itself. A scientist won’t just pick up a potentially significant fossil without spending a lot of time in the area. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/15 "2020-08-14T17:31:38Z")
In South Africa, _all_ fossils [belong to the state](https://aaps-journal.org/South-African-Fossil-Laws.html). Universities and museums (and individuals) get to hold them in trust, but not truly own them. All collections are supposed to be registered, and fossils are only exported with government approval. In practice, this isn’t quite as strictly enforced. But it’s the law. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/16 "2020-08-14T17:33:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > In South Africa, _all_ fossils belong to the state. How do they define a fossil for that purpose? That’s probably a pretty good policy if reasonably defined and enforced. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/17 "2020-08-14T17:41:21Z")
It’s part of more comprehensive [legislation](https://aaps-journal.org/pdf/fossil-laws/za_natheritagresources1999_engorof%20(1).pdf), including archaeological and geological specimens, but doesn’t define “fossil” or “fossilized” directly. I’m pretty sure the standard scientific understanding is intended, though, since they mention “geological past” and trace fossils, and also specifically exclude fossil fuels. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-turn-over-fossils-or-other-findings-to-scientists/918000/18 "2020-08-14T17:53:40Z")
Seems like pretty comprehensive legislation. I suppose nobody loves more red tape but it looks like you could figure out pretty easily if you’ve found something covered by those rules.