# Should we want a \*suspect\* "Dead or Alive"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2001, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365 "2001-09-18T12:22:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/1 "2001-09-18T12:22:17Z")
Since bin Laden is so far only a suspect, and has not been found guilty in any court (the court of public opinion doesn’t count), isn’t it wrong to say we want him “Dead Or Alive?” Or am I perhaps taking what was likely only hyperbole from Bush too seriously? ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/2 "2001-09-18T14:55:29Z")
Well, I agree with you but I predict that we get our butts kicked for saying so. It is going to be difficult to get ObL and the idea of bringing him back alive is even more difficult. So in a way saying we want him “Alive or dead” is facing reality. What I object to is the fact that it makes us look bad, for the reasons the OP stated. It also makes ObL a martyr before he dies. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/3 "2001-09-18T17:47:13Z")
We can take two approaches. We can treat this as a criminal justice problem: we sould _arrest_ the _suspect_ and put him on _trial_. Or we can treat it as a military problem: we should _retaliate_ against an _enemy_ and _destroy_ its ability to strike in the future. Much as I wish for the former solution, I fear that this would be completely untenable in a place like Afghanistan. Nonetheless, I abhor Bush’s macho wild-west posturing. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/4 "2001-09-18T17:53:56Z")
I was watching Live when he said it, and he did not say he wanted bin laden dead or alive he said : “ **I remember when I was a kid, and seeing in the ol’west those signs that read wanted dead or alive, this reminds me of that** ” Thats what he said. not that he wanted bin laden dead or alive. he would probably prefer the latter, but still. It was bad taste for bush to say that. To be honest with you I think that is one of those Freudian slips but who knows. At a time like this he must be on massive doses of Welbutrin or Paxsil because he must be under the toughest of stress. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/5 "2001-09-18T17:54:08Z")
When the hyperbole is offered to the entire world as well as 250 million Americans, and sets the tone for the behavior and actions of the most powerful military machine in the world, I don’t think it’s _possible_ to take it too seriously, **Revtim**. Simply put, no. Under no circumstances is it appropriate to actively seek the death of a suspect. But then, the next question is: How much evidence does it require to move someone out of “suspect” and into “perp?” ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/6 "2001-09-18T17:55:24Z")
shoot… I meant the former. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/7 "2001-09-18T17:57:04Z")
> [@](#): > > At a time like this he must be on massive doses of Welbutrin or Paxsil because he must be under the toughest of stress. I know you’re being faceitous, but any President who needs drugs to cope with stress, even of this magnitude, needs to get out of office post-fucking-haste. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/8 "2001-09-18T18:11:39Z")
I agree andros ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/9 "2001-09-19T03:03:12Z")
Well, once (if) we declare war, then the whole dead or alive thing takes on a whole new spin. The whole “suspect” and court of law angle becomes irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/10 "2001-09-19T03:50:16Z")
Boy, you just don’t get it, do you? Osama bin Laden has already been indicted for the embassy bombings in Africa. We’ve had a great deal of luck bringing him to justice, haven’t we? Lots of international cooperation, too, right? Especially from the country he’s hiding in? In the meantime we’ve have subsequent terrorist attacks against U.S. citizens, and _the death toll just mounts._ Let’s just take it as a given that he’s responsible for the training, planning, equiping, financial support of those directly responsible for the attacks for which he’s been indicted. In such circumstances, when you’re facing a man who is already killing people, getting him alive at all costs means more lives are expendable in the effort to get him. Stupid. Just plain stupid. The only way to go after this guy is with the idea that _getting him_ is essential, and specifically more important than getting him _alive._ The problem with your pie-in-the-sky philosophy? It’s not real life. The first one who can demonstrate the means of securing his custody without endangering any more lives, including the lives of potential victims of future terrorist acts by his organization, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Tom12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Tom12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom12)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/11 "2001-09-19T04:26:35Z")
Either way doesn’t bother me. Not anymore. I stopped being nice about such things when I watched the WTC fall. Our acting ‘civilized’ with these animals all over the globe and the nations which hide them just got a whole lot of people killed and the first real attack on US soil since Pearl Harbor. No doubt, it gave a whole lot of other terrorists some brilliant ideas also. If he isn’t guilty for this, he is guilty for other bombings where people have died, so a warrant is a warrant either way. I don’t care if they bring back decaying pieces of him, just so long as they are absolutely identified as being his. America, since Korea, has been overly nice and nonviolent, with congressmen and diplomats all but bending over backwards for every towel headed psychopath out there, unwilling to rock the gravy train we’ve had going here and over the years, we’ve gotten screwed so many times that we should have the market on Vaseline cornered. When the Saudi’s threw us off of our own wells in Saudi Arabia, even though we were paying them a fare price for the oil, and took over billions in our own equipment, we could have gone in and taken the wells back but chose not to because we would have killed hundreds of thousands of them. So they now screw us in barrel prices and play with our economy, have a major deal going in the white and black slavery market and don’t even give us a break when we fight their battles and put out their oil fires in less time than predicted. Then they get pissed off when we do not agree to their Muslim ways and call us infidels and quietly encourage holy war with us. I think Uncle Sam needs to roll up his sleeves and kick ass again. The time of talking is past. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/12 "2001-09-19T05:06:26Z")
Good grief, Tom; I do believe you’ve just set a record for the most misinformation in the shortest post. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/13 "2001-09-19T05:35:46Z")
Cop: “Stop or I’ll shoot.” Suspect: “No.” Cop: (shoots) He is wanted for a capital crime. Letting him run away is not an option. If he resists arrest, he gets shot. He gets shot, he probably dies. Ergo, he is wanted, dead (if neccessary) or alive (preferably). But it was pretty stupid to phrase it that bluntly on the TV. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/14 "2001-09-19T07:53:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Good grief, Tom; I do believe you’ve just set a record for the most misinformation in the shortest post. \*\* Don’t be silly. His post was four paragraphs long. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/15 "2001-09-19T12:49:28Z")
I agree that the President should be careful to avoid the appearance of bloodthirstiness. There is enough of that in the general population already. I recall that Clinton said certain things after OKC that were troubling too. Look, we all know that Bush wants OBL dead, but this is not a therapy session - our leaders should not always voice their feelings. ---
**Author:** ![NutWrench](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nutwrench/32/20193_2.png) [@NutWrench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutWrench)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/16 "2001-09-19T13:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > **Since bin Laden is so far only a suspect, and has not been found guilty in any court (the court of public opinion doesn’t count), isn’t it wrong to say we want him "Dead Or Alive?"** Yes. We should also have the option of frying him up in pork fat, then feeding him to rats in bite-sized chunks. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-we-want-a-suspect-dead-or-alive/82365/17 "2001-09-19T13:31:31Z")
> [@](#): > > America, since Korea, has been overly nice and nonviolent, with congressmen and diplomats all but bending over backwards for every towel headed psychopath out there, unwilling to rock the gravy train we’ve had going here and over the years, we’ve gotten screwed so many times that we should have the market on Vaseline cornered. _ **cough** _[sub]vietnam[/sub]_ **cough** _