# Should Western Nations halt immigration from Syrian Refugees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780 "2015-11-17T04:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/61 "2015-11-17T22:35:50Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I definitely want to err on the side of humanitarianism and favor a liberal immigration policy in general and particularly with regard to immigrants. > > That said, I wonder how effective vetting and background checks can really be. These are people, many of them very poor with no history of employment or education, coming from an area where civil society is in shambles and basic public records may not be readily accessible, especially to the US government. I would think that a great number of perfectly legitimate refugees would be unable to produce much in the way of a paper trail with regard to their basic biographical data, much less their political and religious views. Am I missing something here? You are not wrong. This is why very few people are considered eligible for resettlement. The UN (the first referral you typically need) only considers about 1% of refugees worldwide to be eligible, and the US only considers a subset of those to enter the US process. If you are in the group of people with no papers and no story, and you aren’t a little kid, you’re not going to make it to step 1, much less the years of endless hoops you are looking at. Most people in the region are better off trying to win the lottery than trying to get resettled in the US. Once you are deemed eligible to be investigated, you are looking at multiple investigations by multiple agencies, along with an extensive interview and interviews of everyone you know (and people they know) by people whose only job it is to spot inconsistencies and improbabilities, all day long. During this, the assumption is that you have been spending your time as a full fledged terrorist, until you can prove differently. You are the one who will need to provide proof that you’ve been spending your time doing innocent things with friendly people. And the people listening are there to try to trip you up the whole time. They are looking for a reason to say “no”. Oh, and you’ll need to provide proof of your immediate family’s activities and affiliations as well. Could a criminal mastermind theoretically beat the system? Maaaaaybe. But the chances of that mastermind being even given a chance is minuscule. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/62 "2015-11-17T23:06:26Z")
Leaving aside the reactive bigotry and grotesque fear mongering that remind us that the north americans only learned superficial lessons from the WWII, I think it is actually a much better and more humane policy for the Europe and others to provide long-term support for the Syrians closer to home. The risks and terrible abuses in transit the refugees already are facing, and what I can expect to be marginalization as a new Roma people, it is better to assist in providing support to building business and life in the Lebanon, the Jordan and the Turkey, which need help in paying for this. The Lebanon already is struggling with almost a third added to its population in the refugees. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/63 "2015-11-17T23:17:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > On a related note: [13% of Syrian Refugees Support ISIS](http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/13-percent-syrian-refugees-support-isis-poll). 13% isn’t even above the crazification factor. You could probably get 13% support for _anything_ in a poll. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/64 "2015-11-17T23:19:19Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Leaving aside the reactive bigotry and grotesque fear mongering that remind us that the north americans only learned superficial lessons from the WWII Well since North Americans didn’t start or suffer the worst of WWII, it’s no surprise they learned different lessons than the ones that wherever the fuck you’re from did. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/65 "2015-11-17T23:35:26Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > This is the answer. The belittlement of very real fears and concerns that people have about their own safety, and the safety of families and communities, seems nearly as heartless and shortsighted as those who want to turn away desperate people who are fleeing for their lives. > > I recently noticed a Facebook argument between a friend, and people I assume were in the small conservative town he is from. He tried and tried to convince them that every bit of the potential danger in accepting Syrian refugees was unfounded. He just couldn’t do it, and finally they convinced _him_ that there was some truth behind the concerns. He then did something very brave, he admitted he had been wrong, but said that still, he was not going to be ruled by fear, because that is what ISIS wants. That even if he ended up being killed by a jihadi who had snuck in with the refugees, that it would be worth it in order to stand up for his morals and help desperate people in their time of need, rather than abandon his values in favor of fear and the darkness that accompanies it. Speaking of being intellectually dishonest, maybe we should demand that the right wingers against Syrian refugees tell us what kind of refugees they would accept that doesn’t just single out Christians. When the platform of the right wing is to stop immigration from everyone except certain people, then their warnings of “these immigrants” ring hollow; if it wasn’t Syrians that may be terrorists, its Mexicans that are rapists, or Asians that can’t speak the language. Its always something. So far, no refugee has been proven to have committed any acts of terrorism. They were all homegrown nationals and citizens of European countries. More refugees being settled in America is not going to put us at risk at all. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/66 "2015-11-17T23:45:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Except the parents were not extremists. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > What this tells me is that the danger of allowing immigrants from communities with such a high incidence of extreme views can persist for a very long time. Not particularly reassuring. This may be the heart of the matter. We have been told these refugees will welcome the fact that they are allowed to live in the West. That they will be grateful. That may be so, but there is a distinct possibility the children of these refugees will not be so grateful. They may become the disaffected Muslim youth that we already see in places such as France. If France is already struggling to employ & integrate its muslim youth another 80,000 of them will only make employing & integrating them more difficult. Today’s grateful refugee is the next generation’s unemployed disaffected teenager. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/67 "2015-11-18T00:50:43Z")
Perhaps if we forced them to wear some sort of sign so we’d all know who they are. something like a gold star or an image of Muhammad sewn on to their shirts. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/68 "2015-11-18T03:28:36Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Speaking of being intellectually dishonest, maybe we should demand that the right wingers against Syrian refugees tell us what kind of refugees they would accept that doesn’t just single out Christians. Primary is Nuclear families and women and children below the age of 12, follow that up with professional class, and then a lottery for military age males. No particular religion required to pass go. As far as I know, this is refugee resettlement, rather than mainline imigration. Expect that most of them should be planning on returning, once the dust is hopefully settled, or look at time in country for a green card, if not. Primary settlements should be at defunct SAC bases, for decompression and primary intergration. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/69 "2015-11-18T08:48:25Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Expect that most of them should be planning on returning, once the dust is hopefully settled Why should they plan on returning? Seriously. I want to know where this assumption comes from. Do they even have anything to return to? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/70 "2015-11-18T10:42:11Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Perhaps if we forced them to wear some sort of sign so we’d all know who they are. something like a gold star or an image of Muhammad sewn on to their shirts. Or make them black up. That would really speed the process of integration. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/71 "2015-11-18T10:58:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > 13% isn’t even above the crazification factor. You could probably get 13% support for _anything_ in a poll. Polling is always a go0d option - what was the question asked, btw? On ISIS, I think the point here is that whatever we think of their tactics and propaganda, the sense of rage at what the West did in Iraq - and the defiant persona of ISIS - will resonate. Fwiw, there was data a while ago that showed that half a million dead civilians means every single family in Iraq could have suffered or did directly suffer a loss because of the invasion. Really, how would you feel at losing a civilian family member to GWB’s folly? Most of the region has legitimate rage. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/72 "2015-11-18T11:44:31Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Perhaps if we forced them to wear some sort of sign so we’d all know who they are. something like a gold star or an image of Muhammad sewn on to their shirts. a green crescent or a red star… and they can tattoo tracking numbers on the young men, ‘just in case…’ ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/73 "2015-11-18T11:52:55Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The Clarion Project is highly biased. Fox News looks “fair and balanced” in comparison. > The Marathon bombers were only 15 and 11 when they came to this country. The bombing was 9 years later. > > Major Hassan was born here. > > The Syrian passport was fake. All the attackers were European nationals. This sound likes you’re saying it’s naïve to believe that it’s any safer to accept child refugees than adults since they might still become terrorists if raised here, or even are born here. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/74 "2015-11-18T12:58:55Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > This sound likes you’re saying it’s naïve to believe that it’s any safer to accept child refugees than adults since they might still become terrorists if raised here, or even are born here. Well, a lot of people would say is it’s naive to think you can blow the shit out of countries and peoples with impunity anymore, just cos it suits some President and his weird clan agenda. There will be consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/75 "2015-11-18T13:32:35Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Well, a lot of people would say is it’s naive to think you can blow the shit out of countries and peoples with impunity anymore, just cos it suits some President and his weird clan agenda. There will be consequences. You do know these are Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS, don’t you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/76 "2015-11-18T13:55:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Why should they plan on returning? > > Seriously. > > I want to know where this assumption comes from. > > Do they even have anything to return to? Why do you seem so annoyed at the idea people may want to return home? [Voluntary repatriation](http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646cfe.html) is often preferred. Shocking to you but maybe a professor from Syria doesn’t want to spend the rest of his life driving a cab in America. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/77 "2015-11-18T15:17:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You do know these are Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS, don’t you? > > Regards, > Shodan They’re Syrian refugees fleeing a war zone. Assad and his barrel bombs have been the leading reason for over a year. Plus, many have been in camps for 2-3 years and see no future there either. So no, most are not fleeing ISIS ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/78 "2015-11-18T15:19:59Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why do you seem so annoyed at the idea people may want to return home? [Voluntary repatriation](http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646cfe.html) is often preferred. Shocking to you but maybe a professor from Syria doesn’t want to spend the rest of his life driving a cab in America. You can’t help but be amazed at some of the views on here 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/79 "2015-11-18T15:28:07Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I definitely want to err on the side of humanitarianism… Some things just don’t leave much margin for error. One little miscalculation = FAIL. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/80 "2015-11-18T15:33:47Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > They’re Syrian refugees fleeing a war zone. Assad and his barrel bombs have been the leading reason for over a year. Plus, many have been in camps for 2-3 years and see no future there either. > > So no, most are not fleeing ISIS It is worth noting that the DAESH areas of operation and control are not in the highly populated regions of the Syria, but in the desertic and low population areas (until very recently exclusively). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780.md?page=5)