# Should Western Nations halt immigration from Syrian Refugees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780 "2015-11-17T04:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/101 "2015-11-19T13:14:25Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > There’s lots of open space in rich ME oil sheikdoms. When those countries have taken in their fill of their co-religionists, then maybe we can think about accepting our share. A lot of that “empty space” is barren desert, like the famous “Empty Quarter”. You can put people there but they can’t live there without being provided food, water, and shelter. You can’t farm there. Everything has to be brought in. You might as well argue for settling them in Antarctica. As for “taken in their fill” - smaller and less wealthy nations like Lebannon and Jordan _already have done so_ - if I recall correctly, in Lebannon now one person in six is a Syrian refugee. One person in six. The would be the equivalent of the US taking in 50 million people (which is more than twice the entire population of Syria). How many more people do you think such nations can take? Again with the assumptions - people _assume_ that ME nations aren’t taking people in. They are (except for Saudi Arabia - although they’ve taken a few it’s far, far fewer than anyone else). They _assume_ they refugees aren’t being vetted. These assumptions are based on ignorance and lies. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/102 "2015-11-19T13:31:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Some questions for those who want to halt the flow of Syrian refugees. > > Suppose it was the nineteen-thirties. What would be your policy towards Jewish refugees fleeing Germany? > > Would you say they should stay in Germany and accept whatever the Nazis do to them? Would you say they’re only using Nazi persecution as an excuse to come to America for jobs? Would you say other countries should take them? Would you turn away Jewish refugees because some of them might be secret Nazi agents sneaking in among the crowd? Would you say that we’re a Christian nation and non-Christians won’t fit in? Would you say that Jews and Nazis are all Germans, so why should we distinguish between them? This is no comparison at all. Jewish people have not declared jihad against all who are not Jew. Jewish do not wish to kill non-jews. Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/103 "2015-11-19T13:36:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Some questions for those who want to halt the flow of Syrian refugees. > > Suppose it was the nineteen-thirties. What would be your policy towards Jewish refugees fleeing Germany? > > Would you say they should stay in Germany and accept whatever the Nazis do to them? Would you say they’re only using Nazi persecution as an excuse to come to America for jobs? Would you say other countries should take them? Would you turn away Jewish refugees because some of them might be secret Nazi agents sneaking in among the crowd? Would you say that we’re a Christian nation and non-Christians won’t fit in? Would you say that Jews and Nazis are all Germans, so why should we distinguish between them? It’s obvious in hindsight that we should have taken more Jews. But there are two major differences. First, there was very little Jewish terrorism in 1938. Second, in 1938 the US govt did not yet have a history of repeatedly abusing immigration laws to protect people who don’t need to be protected. For example, illegal El Salvadoran immigrants have been “temporarily” protected from deportation for the last 17 years because of Hurricane Mitch, which happened in 1998! Now legitimate refugees are going to pay the price for the US government’s total lack of credibility when it comes to immigration. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/104 "2015-11-19T13:50:34Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > This is no comparison at all. Jewish people have not declared jihad against all who are not Jew. Jewish do not wish to kill non-jews. Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to. Neither did Syrian refugees. Every immigrant group has some good argument against them. And that goes double for refugees, who by definition have been in proximity to bad stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/105 "2015-11-19T14:03:57Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to. [Funny you should say that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun). Cause you’re wrong. (and of course, as I already said, back then Jews were accused of being the masterminds behind the Russian revolution and/or affiliated with every socialist and anarchist movement ever ; some of which were quite violent. Including in the US) Also what **even sven** said. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/106 "2015-11-19T14:06:31Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > Jewish people have not declared jihad against all who are not Jew. Jewish do not wish to kill non-jews. Jews have not and did not commit terrorist acts against the very country that want to come to. Nor do Syrian refugees. There may be exceptions; [there have been Jewish exceptions also](http://edition.cnn.com/2001/LAW/12/12/jdl.arrests/). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/107 "2015-11-19T14:14:48Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > First, there was very little Jewish terrorism in 1938. … seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/108 "2015-11-19T14:34:19Z")
I was explaining the vetting process to a friend-of-friend on Facebook last night, and she said “obviously it’s not good enough.” So I asked her how that was obvious, and she said “look what happened in France!” It took a good three or four additional posts before she understood that the US State Department does not vet refugees admitted to France. And then like a dozen to explain that none of the French terrorists were actually refugees. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/109 "2015-11-19T14:35:59Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Second, in 1938 the US govt did not yet have a history of repeatedly abusing immigration laws to protect people who don’t need to be protected. For example, illegal El Salvadoran immigrants have been “temporarily” protected from deportation for the last 17 years because of Hurricane Mitch, which happened in 1998! Now legitimate refugees are going to pay the price for the US government’s total lack of credibility when it comes to immigration. Unrest and economic hardship is still happening in El Salvador. The problem I see there is that deporting that many now is bound to cause even more unrest. Incidentally it is wrong to claim that Hurricane Mitch is the reason now; Severe earthquakes, and as mentioned, currently being unable to handle a return of so many now are the reasons. [https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/01/07/2015-00031/extension-of-the-designation-of-el-salvador-for-temporary-protected-status](https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/01/07/2015-00031/extension-of-the-designation-of-el-salvador-for-temporary-protected-status) > [@](#): > > The Secretary has determined that an extension is warranted because the conditions in El Salvador that prompted the TPS designation continue to be met. There continues to be a substantial, but temporary, disruption of living conditions in El Salvador resulting from a series of earthquakes in 2001, and El Salvador remains unable, temporarily, to handle adequately the return of its nationals. It seems to me that it is less credible for your sources to accuse the government of abusing the immigration rules when they themselves are abusing of your trust. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/110 "2015-11-19T16:20:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … seriously? It was not directed at the US ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/111 "2015-11-19T16:29:02Z")
Perhaps you can show me an example of a Syrian refugee who engaged in US-directed terrorism, then. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/112 "2015-11-19T16:41:56Z")
I heard one refugee threw a carrot at a US charity rep in a border camp. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/113 "2015-11-19T16:45:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Unrest and economic hardship is still happening in El Salvador. The problem I see there is that deporting that many now is bound to cause even more unrest. Incidentally it is wrong to claim that Hurricane Mitch is the reason now; Severe earthquakes, and as mentioned, currently being unable to handle a return of so many now are the reasons. > > [Federal Register :: Extension of the Designation of El Salvador for Temporary Protected Status](https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/01/07/2015-00031/extension-of-the-designation-of-el-salvador-for-temporary-protected-status) > It seems to me that it is less credible for your sources to accuse the government of abusing the immigration rules when they themselves are abusing of your trust. I look at the facts and draw my own conclusions. TPS is political. You can always come up with an excuse not to deport someone. When that reason keeps changing, it’s a good indication that the original reason was BS as well. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/114 "2015-11-19T17:14:33Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > I look at the facts and draw my own conclusions. TPS is political. You can always come up with an excuse not to deport someone. When that reason keeps changing, it’s a good indication that the original reason was BS as well. Well, the problem is that someone did give you the wrong facts to come to that conclusion, maybe it is just me but what I do is to remove the sources that are giving me misleading info from my bookmarks at least. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/115 "2015-11-19T17:32:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Some questions for those who want to halt the flow of Syrian refugees. > > Suppose it was the nineteen-thirties. What would be your policy towards Jewish refugees fleeing Germany? > > Would you say they should stay in Germany and accept whatever the Nazis do to them? Would you say they’re only using Nazi persecution as an excuse to come to America for jobs? Would you say other countries should take them? Would you turn away Jewish refugees because some of them might be secret Nazi agents sneaking in among the crowd? Would you say that we’re a Christian nation and non-Christians won’t fit in? Would you say that Jews and Nazis are all Germans, so why should we distinguish between them? I would add that this analogy is especially ironic given that Israel will not admit any Syrians at all. I believe this applies **even to those with Israeli spouses.** ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/116 "2015-11-19T17:37:34Z")
Hell no, we need to be taking more. All countries should be taking more refugees, not one country taking the entire burden. We need more welcome centers and registering them and having info on them. we should make safer for them, allow them to fly here . Therefore you get to know who is coming, it’s safer for refugees and takes away from human traffickers a big incentive to make themselves rich. Saying we will keep them out is foolish for they will come in anyway and it’s more perilous of a journey. Sure it make right wing governments look tough but really it’s useless. Oh and not to mention it’s just the right thing to do morally. Besides Syrians we should also take in Iraqis, we screwed up their nation. Good article below highlighting my points. > **[What Libya can teach Europe about refugees – DW – 11/11/2015](https://www.dw.com/en/what-libya-can-teach-europe-about-refugees/a-18843579)** > > The ECFR has released a report suggesting Europe could learn a few things from Libya about migration management. Its author, Mattia Toaldo, tells DW what Europe is doing wrong. And as others pointed out terrorists find it easier to recruit plenty of nationals rather then transport refugees. That would be impractical and unlikely. Not impossible but unlikely, especially carrying bombs and other materials. Makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/117 "2015-11-19T17:51:15Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > They’re Syrian refugees fleeing a war zone. Assad and his barrel bombs have been the leading reason for over a year. Plus, many have been in camps for 2-3 years and see no future there either. > > So no, most are not fleeing ISIS Thank you thank you thank you. :D:D ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/118 "2015-11-19T18:07:07Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Nor do Syrian refugees. > > . They haven’t had the opportunity yet. Now that we’re bussing them over here, they will better be in a position to do so ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/119 "2015-11-19T18:10:28Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > [Funny you should say that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun). Cause you’re wrong. > (and of course, as I already said, back then Jews were accused of being the masterminds behind the Russian revolution and/or affiliated with every socialist and anarchist movement ever ; some of which were quite violent. Including in the US) > > Also what **even sven** said. Disbanded in 1948… hardly the same thing as now. It was not directed against the US. I don’t care about the Russian revolution. I care about the US. Now. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780/120 "2015-11-19T18:15:49Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > They haven’t had the opportunity yet. Now that we’re bussing them over here, they will better be in a position to do so And…there is no possible way the US can do thorough background checks on 10000 people. No way. It would take years. Our government isn’t competent enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-western-nations-halt-immigration-from-syrian-refugees/737780.md?page=7)