# Should white people be offended when a person of mixed race calls themselves .......? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276 "2005-12-12T17:10:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/41 "2005-12-14T18:08:19Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > If you found it offensive, you should have said it offended you instead of saying that I was wrong or making things up… It was offensive, **in addition** to sounding made up. Get that through your thick skull. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/42 "2005-12-14T18:22:04Z")
Thank you Scott. \*\*you with the face \*\* My first reply to you was asking for clarification on your post. You sidestepped most of my question. Your cite has no value today and this is the first time you admit it was off-hand and not a “fact”. It is even possible you are correct, that does not support the way you stated it and then defended it. I made it clear it was my experience I was talking about and not a generic fact. I am however happy to hear you meant no negative connotation with _Swarthy … Italians_ but maybe you could choose a different synonym in the future. \*\*Mainly I was just waiting for you to say that what you posted was just your opinion, you presented it and defended it, like a fact. \*\* Jim ---
**Author:** ![vix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a88e4f/32.png) [@vix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vix)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/43 "2005-12-14T18:29:52Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > I never even put forth that Italians are especially fervent in their love of blondness; I only acknowledged that there might be a passing relationship between blacks’ interest in light skin and ethnic whites’ interest in blonde hair, particularly as it relates to history. If I’m wrong about Italians in particular, then I’m wrong, but I sincerely doubt Italians would be immune from the pressures of assimilation that most immigrants groups faced when they entered this country. And yes, the blonde ideal was a part of this pressure. This is accurate, in my personal experience. I am of Italian descent, and I grew up in and around Providence, RI, a heavily Italian-American community. Some relatives of mine definitely value blonde hair over brown. At the same time, people in my family have been (or feel that they have been) held back in various ways for not being WASPs. The community as a whole is very proud of successful Italians, especially those who break into fields that had once been closed to them. Not that you have to be blonde to do that, obviously, but there are certainly people who feel it wouldn’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/44 "2005-12-14T18:56:45Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > \*\*you with the face \*\* My first reply to you was asking for clarification on your post. You sidestepped most of my question. This is what you wrote to me: > [@](#): > > What? I have never seen this in Italian families. If anything, I have seen a slight preference for a “True Italian Beauty”. Olive Skin, Long Dark Haired and Curvy. > Could you tell me where you got this blonde thing from? It is new to me. But you didn’t say anything about your objection to my use of the word swarthy, which is apparently what is your main gripe with what I wrote. But to answer your question, I draw from my daily experiences (Do you want to know how many bottle-blondes I see on a daily basis? Do I need to tell how many times I hear about “blonde beauties” that are actually quite mediocre looking?). I’ve been in integrated schools all my life and am well aware that blondeness has been equated with beauty and popularity and “All-Americaness”. I watch TV and see how the blonde aesthetic is played out in pop culture. I go to movies and notice that a disproportionate number of big-time actresses peroxide their hair. Because I have a strong interest in race, I’ve read a great deal about the effects that cultural discrimination and stigmatization have had on various groups in this country, including non-Anglo Saxon whites. This is where I get the “blonde thing” from. > [@](#): > > Your cite has no value today and this is the first time you admit it was off-hand and not a “fact”. It doesn’t need to be admitted. If the main point you took away from my reply to **pizzabrat** is that Italians are some blonde-obsessed \, then you have demonstrated a failure to read for comprehension. And you are making me laugh with this “your cite has no value today” business. What the hell does _that_ mean? > [@](#): > > Mainly I was just waiting for you to say that what you posted was just your opinion, you presented it and defended it, like a fact. It’s a little bit more than opinion, and I’ve told you why I think that it is. Sorry but you are sounding a bit petulant now. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/45 "2005-12-14T19:01:47Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Do you consider “swarthy” a content free word? It brings up many negative connotations. Words like WAP are usually tied to that phrase. I’d never heard that. I occasionally hear people like Ann Coulter say “swarthy” as a code for “Arabs or people who look like Arabs,” but I thought swarthy by itself was neutral. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/46 "2005-12-14T19:16:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’d never heard that. I occasionally hear people like Ann Coulter say “swarthy” as a code for “Arabs or people who look like Arabs,” but I thought swarthy by itself was neutral. It was the use of Swarthy and Italian so closely linked that made it sound like a WASP code phrase. Swarthy was used along with even less endearing terms to describe several southern Mediterranean immigrant groups back in the day by the prejudiced existing population. I overreacted but I also found the entire post that set this off was presented like a known fact and that is what I more strongly objected to. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/47 "2005-12-14T21:36:52Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > In Hawaii, if you’re half Asian/half white, you’re referred to as “Hapa Haole”, so the emphasis is more on the white (haole) than Asian. That’s in keeping with the standard on the continental US, though - there are more self-identified Asians than white people in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/48 "2005-12-14T21:58:07Z")
The offense taken at **you with the face’s** comment is so totally out in left field that it is embarrassing Are ya’ll completely neglecting the fact that she said “although one _could_ argue…”? As in, “I dont necessarily believe this”? A lof of knee-jerking in this here thread. And there’s no way anyone could argue that there isn’t a blonde aesthetic in the US or probably in most Euro-centric countries. Hell, turn on Telemundo, NBC, WB, and any other major network! Most of the white women I know personally have blonde hair–dark roots and all. Yesterday at the store, I noticed all the magazines had blondes on their covers. Except for the one featuring the gorgous Selma Heyack. Either there is a strong preference in our society for blonde hair or most people just naturally have blonde hair (and this isn’t the case). So…it doesn’t seem wrong at all to speculate that a dark-featured population (especially one carrying a stigma) might esteem this feature just as, if not more than, anyone else. What is so earth-shattering about this idea? As far as the OP goes, the conduct of certain posters in this thread demonstrates that people who want to be offended at something will find a way to be offended. Why does anyone care what someone identifies as? Even if you think a person is denying who they are, why should your reaction be offense? Wouldn’t it be pity? I just read **Caucasia** by Danzy Senna. Excellent book for folks interested in this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/49 "2005-12-14T22:18:21Z")
Should white people be offended? Hell no. It’s mixed folks who ought to be offended, if anyone. I technically could be counted as mixed race (part native american) even though I look 100% white and have always identified myself as white. But if I decided to do that I’d have to constantly explain myself. I have known plenty of people of mixed race forced to identify themselves as a single race for various reasons, from college applications and other tests to even their high school friends’ demands. My college roommate was half philippino, and 3/8 black and 1/8 cherokee. She managed to make it through grade school hanging out with both black girls and asian girls, but by the time she got to high school she felt truly pressured to “choose” one or the other. She ended up “choosing” black because her closest friends were black, but she could have just as easily chosen “asian.” The fucked up part was that she had to choose at all. She genuinely felt that she had two separate lives because she’d spend the day with her black friends being “black”, then go home and spend the evening being “philippino” with her philippino mother and grandmother. I too look forward to the day when we are all mongrels and can move on from racial pigeonholes. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/50 "2005-12-14T23:31:10Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > It was offensive, **in addition** to sounding made up. **Get that through your thick skull**. **(second sentence bolding mine)** Didn’t you just pick up another warning for insulting behavior in **Cafe Society**? Are you trying to get banned? Knock it off. [/Moderator Mode] ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/51 "2005-12-14T23:53:17Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Why doesn’t it seem like the caucasion in that person ever gets equal billing? I’m half white, half Mexican. If I’m pressed to choose one or the other I’d pick Mexican. Why? I got called “beaner” in school but never any white epithets. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/52 "2005-12-15T03:41:10Z")
There are biracial people who are generally regarded as “white” - Jennifer Beals and Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson both have a black parent but aren’t usually considered “black”. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/53 "2005-12-15T12:59:48Z")
> [@UselessGit](#): > > Italian men stalking them and generally behaving like madmen because of their blonde hair. > [@some book of quotes I read years ago](#): > > In Italy, a woman can have a face like a shovel if she’s blonde As to the OP: The only white person who might have any objectively reasonable claim to feel offended would be the half-white person’s white parent, under the “What am I, Chopped Liver?” principle. Everyone else needs to just let it go, and find some more useful way to spend their time, such as fighting against the Universe-destroying War on Christmas. Has something changed recently in the manufacture of shorts and panties? They seem to be getting disproportionately twisted and bunched as of late. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/54 "2005-12-15T13:22:10Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > As to the OP: > > The only white person who might have any objectively reasonable claim to feel offended would be the half-white person’s white parent, under the “What am I, Chopped Liver?” principle. > > Everyone else needs to just let it go, and find some more useful way to spend their time, such as fighting against the Universe-destroying War on Christmas. > > Has something changed recently in the manufacture of shorts and panties? They seem to be getting disproportionately twisted and bunched as of late. The OP is not offended in the least. Just asking of others were, and there doesn’t seem to be much offense taken. I agree with the war on Christmas thing, though. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/55 "2005-12-15T14:55:36Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > I agree with the war on Christmas thing, though. Well, I am glad you’ve identified yourself. I kept looking and looking for these people making war on Christmas, just like Jerry told me to, and I could never find them. If you’re willing to confess that you are the one who is waging that war, I can rest more easily knowing that Jerry didn’t invent the whole thing and that there is one person actually waging that war. (I certainly would not want to think ill of Jerry and his ilk.) ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/56 "2005-12-15T15:53:07Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Well, I am glad you’ve identified yourself. I kept looking and looking for these people making war on Christmas, just like Jerry told me to, and I could never find them. If you’re willing to confess that you are the one who is waging that war, I can rest more easily knowing that Jerry didn’t invent the whole thing and that there is one person actually waging that war. > > (I certainly would not want to think ill of Jerry and his ilk.) Huh?, I don’t agree with the concept, I agree with what the poster **scotandrsn** said. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/57 "2005-12-15T15:58:55Z")
Irony is so hard to pull off in short posts. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/58 "2005-12-15T15:59:06Z")
_Whooosh!_ Swing and a miss. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/59 "2005-12-15T18:07:58Z")
:d ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276/60 "2005-12-15T20:59:47Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > There are biracial people who are generally regarded as “white” - Jennifer Beals and Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson both have a black parent but aren’t usually considered “black”. But there was something of a scandal when Jennifer Beals passed in “Flashdance” as it could be interpreted that she wanted to be accepted in the mainstream and hid her black ancestry. Now she is more open about it because it’s not such an issue. Mariah Carey also played it coy when she first became a pop star. I think of The Rock as Samoan. ?? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-white-people-be-offended-when-a-person-of-mixed-race-calls-themselves/335276.md?page=4)