# Should/ will Biden issue pardons to Trump's enemies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 19, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424 "2024-11-19T00:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/161 "2025-01-20T17:12:13Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > First they were pardoned “without an admission of guilt”, which is a horrible precendent. The “horrible precedent” was a president threatening his political adversaries with harassment and prosecution, for the offense of opposing his criminality. Everything that follows is just a reaction to that ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/162 "2025-01-20T17:33:38Z")
Everybody knows the circumstances under which the pardons are given, and “admission of guilt” isn’t a concern. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/163 "2025-01-20T17:43:28Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > First they were pardoned “without an admission of guilt”, which is a horrible precendent. So, you’d prefer a President to say “I think these folks did nothing wrong, and therefore I’m going to let them rot in prison”? Seriously, the notion of a pardon implying guilt has never made any sense whatsoever. > [@Pedro](#): > > Besides being a legal grey area to issue preemptive pardons it’s not for Biden to decide what are baseless investigations and how much supposed havoc is warranted in a criminal investigation to uphold the laws of the United States. He’s the President, and therefore he has the pardon power, and therefore, yes, it is for him to decide that. > [@psychonaut](#): > > I think the much bigger problem is that Biden’s action sets a precedent for pre-emptive pardoning. He most certainly didn’t set that precedent, because Ford beat him to it. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/164 "2025-01-20T17:53:15Z")
Where on the long, long list of major Biden scandals do these pardons land? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/165 "2025-01-20T18:07:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, you’d prefer a President to say “I think these folks did nothing wrong, and therefore I’m going to let them rot in prison”? > > Seriously, the notion of a pardon implying guilt has never made any sense whatsoever. This made me think of the Duke lacrosse rape case where the accuser turned out to be a nut job and the prosecutor pressed the case for his own political benefit, even manipulating evidential procedures. If the players had been convicted and sentenced, and then the North Carolina governor pardoned them, should they have said: “No, thank you, that’s an admission of guilt. We’ll sit in prison until we get a new trial.” We don’t need to rehash the Duke case here, but it seems like an example where the pardon would be a welcome alternative to being in prison for something one didn’t do, and false and political prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/166 "2025-01-20T18:08:45Z")
Somewhere between jaywalking and spitting on the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/167 "2025-01-20T18:12:32Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > If the players had been convicted and sentenced, and then the North Carolina governor pardoned them, should they have said: “No, thank you, that’s an admission of guilt. We’ll sit in prison until we get a new trial.” At that: how about a hypothetical where it’s a death-penalty offense? So instead of just sitting there, the innocent person chooses between ’accept the pardon right as the pardoner _explicitly_ notes that it’s not an indication of guilt’ or, if you prefer, ‘get executed.’ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/168 "2025-01-20T18:17:13Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > First they were pardoned “without an admission of guilt”, which is a horrible precendent. How are they supposed to admit their guilt if they haven’t been charged yet? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/169 "2025-01-20T18:24:48Z")
Just before the inauguration, it was announced that Biden has also issued blanket pardons to members of his family – his siblings James Biden, Francis Biden and Valerie Biden Owens, as well as brother-in-law John Owens and sister-in-law Sara Jones Biden. This seems a bit . . . much? I haven’t heard that any of them are in the crosshairs of the Trump Administration. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/170 "2025-01-20T18:25:47Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Just before the inauguration, it was announced that Biden has also issued blanket pardons to members of his family – his siblings James Biden, Francis Biden and Valerie Biden Owens, as well as brother-in-law John Owens and sister-in-law Sara Jones Biden. > > This seems a bit . . . much? Why pardon all of them, but not himself? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/171 "2025-01-20T18:27:40Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > At that: how about a hypothetical where it’s a death-penalty offense? So instead of merely sitting in prison, the innocent person gets to choose between ’accept the pardon right as the pardoner _explicitly_ notes that it’s not an indication of guilt’ or, y’know, ‘get executed.’ This and all the other arguments above in a similar vein are specious. As person on death row was already convicted of a crime. So they are not innocent in the justice system. People are, intentionally or not, conflating the criminal prosecution with some kind of admission of guilt to their personal god. That’s not what this is about. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/172 "2025-01-20T18:29:22Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > The judiciary is independent of the executive - but the prosecutors are not. Yes, the individual judges / justices are free to make their own decisions, but many of the current (and many more in the future) were nominated by Trump because they were on the list of the Federalist Society, and can be trusted to act in a certain manor. As an example, see Judge Eileen Cannon. So while the judiciary is _technically_ independent of the executive, they are certainly biased towards the executive that put the individuals in position. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/173 "2025-01-20T18:30:53Z")
Trump pardoned a war criminal. I’ll start giving a shit when a Democratic president comes close to such a heinous act. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/174 "2025-01-20T18:33:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > How are they supposed to admit their guilt if they haven’t been charged yet? That one is easy, the same way they can accept a pardon for something they haven’t been charged for. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/175 "2025-01-20T18:34:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > He most certainly didn’t set that precedent, because Ford beat him to it. It’s not a precedent in the sense that Trump or his supporters are going to reference it if/when issuing their own pre-emptive pardons. They most certainly will bring up Biden’s. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/176 "2025-01-20T18:39:30Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I think the much bigger problem is that Biden’s action sets a precedent for pre-emptive pardoning. Didn’t Ford do that with his pardon of Nixon? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/177 "2025-01-20T18:50:49Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Where on the long, long list of major Biden scandals do these pardons land? _What_ list of Biden scandals? There’s a long long list of shit made up by MAGA, none of which stands up to scrutiny. I approve of the pardons. I do not think any reasonable person can say pardon = guilt. Nor that it will stop MAGA freaks. I think he should have pardoned all the police who protected the capitol against the Jan 6th rioters. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/178 "2025-01-20T18:52:10Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > > > Where on the long, long list of major Biden scandals do these pardons land? > > _What_ list of Biden scandals? I assumed that was sarcasm of some sort. Biden hasn’t had any scandals that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/179 "2025-01-20T19:05:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I assumed that was sarcasm of some sort. Well, duh 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424/180 "2025-01-20T19:12:43Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > Yes. Also imprison them _with_ trial, if he controls the courts, which Trump does. > > I’m not any kind of legal scholar but I was under the impression that the judiciary was independent of the executive branch. The judiciary is supposed to be independent of the executive branch, yes. Currently there is a good deal of evidence that is no longer the case in this country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-will-biden-issue-pardons-to-trumps-enemies/1010424.md?page=10)