# Should women abort a clearly defective fetus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273 "2014-08-10T23:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/61 "2014-08-14T01:16:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Agreed, and further, we should not force anyone to continue a pregnancy if they wish to end it, at any time, and for any reason. > > It shouldn’t need to be said, but please note that ending a pregnancy is not necessarily synonymous with killing the fetus/baby. Just curious. How are you going to end a pregnancy without killing the fetus? ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/62 "2014-08-14T01:24:03Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > Just curious. How are you going to end a pregnancy without killing the fetus? Depending on how far along the pregnancy is a c-section is a possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/63 "2014-08-14T15:34:12Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > The women and men posting on the site linked below wanted their babies but chose to abort because of severe defects: > > [http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/](http://www.aheartbreakingchoice.com/) > > The key word is “choice.” No its not. the key words are “severe defects” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/64 "2014-08-15T00:56:09Z")
Believe it or not, some women would never submit to an abortion regardless of fetal defect. I’ve even known a couple. Yes, whether or not to continue a pregnancy is (within limits set by law) a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/65 "2014-08-15T01:12:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Isn’t someone like Stephen Hawking an argument that even an extremely severe disability is not always a net negative to society? Perhaps we would have been better off if someone like Homer had been left to the wolves because, you know, the Iliad and the Odyssey are nearly unknown and have had zero effect on the world. That kind of consequence is unpredictable, and can’t be a basis for a rational decision. For example, perhaps if we’d killed Stephen Hawking at birth, that would have made room for some other even cooler genius. Who knows? It’s senseless to speculate. What is predictable is that for certain kinds of problems, quality of life for the kid, the family, and many other people will _probably_ be lower than it would have been otherwise. On that basis I think the responsible thing to do is often to abort the fetus. (This is abstracting from a lot of details that would apply in particular situations, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/66 "2014-08-15T01:19:36Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Acceptable? Yes. Required? No. Her body is her body. Back in 1992, when there was a three party Presidential campaign going on, I watched the Vice Presidential debate, featuring Al Gore, Dan Quayle, and Ret Adm. James Stockdale. During the debate, when answering proposition questions from the moderator, the order in with the candidates would answer varied. When the touchy subject about abortion came up Stockdale was third in responding. Quayle and Gore had both given long winded and weasel worded responses, and one was kinda for abortion rights and the other(can’t remember which) was kinda against abortion rights. Stockdale looked at the moderator and stated _“I believe that what a woman does with her own body is her business, period.”_ The moderator kind of hunched his shoulders up as if to ask _“That’s it?”_ Stockdale just said _“Period”_ in a firm voice. That’s when I decided to vote for the Perot/Stockdale ticket. I don’t like abortion, I believe life begins at conception, but my belief is based on my religious leanings so I can’t prove a thing about “life” And I sure wouldn’t want anyone telling me what to do with my body, or what I couldn’t do. **jsgoddess** nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/67 "2014-08-15T03:45:25Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What is predictable is that for certain kinds of problems, quality of life for the kid, the family, and many other people will _probably_ be lower than it would have been otherwise. On that basis I think the responsible thing to do is often to abort the fetus. (This is abstracting from a lot of details that would apply in particular situations, though.) I guess I have a couple problems with the “probably lower quality of life” thing. First, the non-disabled, including medical personnel, nearly always rate the quality of life of someone handicapped as worse than that actual, handicapped person does. Second, where do you draw the line? Kid will never play football, he’s not good enough? Kid can walk a but not run, but hey, that’s not too bad? Kid’s in a wheelchair, parents freak out over it but kid might be fine with it? It’s actually not as easy a matter as it first appears to be. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/68 "2014-08-15T03:47:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > First, the non-disabled, including medical personnel, nearly always rate the quality of life of someone handicapped as worse than that actual, handicapped person does. That wasn’t my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/69 "2014-08-15T03:52:10Z")
There are always exceptions. There have been a number of studies conducted by medical researchers and published in peer-reviewed journals on the subject. Regrettably, I read them before the internet became king of all media so I do not have direct links. ---
**Author:** ![ItWasAGoodIdeaAtTheTime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e5b9ba/32.png) [@ItWasAGoodIdeaAtTheTime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ItWasAGoodIdeaAtTheTime)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/70 "2014-08-15T08:41:24Z")
An aspect of abortion that doesn’t get much look in, putting aside ethics, religion, morality (which aren’t always mutually exclusive) is how frequently a woman’s own body decides that the cells/mini bean/foetus isn’t worth hanging on to for the good of the woman’s body or the offspring. > **[Smoking and pregnancy](https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/im-pregnant/smoking-and-pregnancy?pid=383)** > > Smoking in pregnancy is harmful to your baby. Quitting is one of the best things you can do to protect your baby’s health. Tommy’s, a large respected charity in the UK, estimates about 1 in 5 births result in miscarriage. My sister had an unplanned pregnancy several years ago. She’d come round to the situation and was looking forward to becoming a mum when she discovered at 12 weeks the foetus had died at about 6 weeks. I was discussing this with a friend who told me that someone at her work had recently had a miscarriage- not something that comes up in workplace discussion much. But that then triggered a surprising number of other women to disclose they’d been through the same. And these are only the ones who knew about it. A good many will happen with the mother-to-be oblivious. That does affect my own personal views on abortion when even the mother’s own body id’s the bean as an unwelcome intruder into the women’s system. Sister’s pregnancy number 2 is now 1 year old and can smell an adult’s pudding/biscuits like a raptor… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/71 "2014-08-15T15:16:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Believe it or not, some women would never submit to an abortion regardless of fetal defect. I’ve even known a couple. Yes, whether or not to continue a pregnancy is (within limits set by law) a choice. And when there are severe defects, I think a woman should do whatever she thinks is best. And in some cases I think we should take the choice away from her. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/72 "2014-08-16T02:58:32Z")
“A woman should decide what’s best” and “we should take the decision away from her” are mutually exclusive positions. Please try again. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/73 "2014-08-16T03:07:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And in some cases I think we should take the choice away from her. Which cases? ---
**Author:** ![truthseeker3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e68b1a/32.png) [@truthseeker3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthseeker3)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/74 "2014-08-17T04:03:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Just curious. How are you going to end a pregnancy without killing the fetus? > [@](#): > > Depending on how far along the pregnancy is a c-section is a possibility. Except here the contention is that the fetus will become a burden on its family if it’s allowed to continue living. The death of the fetus (pre-emptive euthanasia?) is specifically what is recommended. > [@](#): > > What is predictable is that for certain kinds of problems, quality of life for the kid, the family, and many other people will probably be lower than it would have been otherwise. On that basis I think the responsible thing to do is often to abort the fetus. Those who embrace death with dignity would do well to observe how easily the _right_ to kill can blur into the _duty_ to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/75 "2014-08-18T03:41:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > “A woman should decide what’s best” and “we should take the decision away from her” are mutually exclusive positions. > > Please try again. Not when both of those clauses are conditioned on another clause. The phrase “A woman should decide what’s best” is conditioned on the clause “And when there are severe defects,” The phrase “we should take the decision away from her” is preceded by the clause “and in some cases” You see how that totally changes the meaning of the clauses you picked out? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/76 "2014-08-18T03:42:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Which cases? Healthy third trimester pregnancies. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/77 "2014-08-18T19:26:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The phrase “A woman should decide what’s best” is conditioned on the clause “And when there are severe defects,” > > The phrase “we should take the decision away from her” is preceded by the clause “and in some cases” > > You see how that totally changes the meaning of the clauses you picked out? No - all you’re saying is that you’re fine with a woman making the choice unless she makes a choice YOU disagree with. So, ultimately, you want to make the decision and not allow other people free will. You think you know better than every woman anywhere in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/78 "2014-08-18T19:33:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Healthy third trimester pregnancies. Ah, but quite a few women would consider a healthy third trimester pregnancy defective if it’s, say - the wrong gender, - looks too much like her, - will be very short like Daddy… I personally know cases of all three, some of which took decades to forgive the kid for a defect said child certainly hadn’t chosen to have. And where do you draw the “healthy” line? My nephew was born with a defective urether and has had several surgeries to correct it, does he count as defective? The issue was found when his mother was already dilating. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/79 "2014-08-18T19:35:58Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Healthy third trimester pregnancies. For me, that’s generally the area where it should only be done for medical reasons. I believe third trimester abortions though are extremely rare. ---
**Author:** ![vietnamvet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/90db22/32.png) [@vietnamvet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vietnamvet)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273/80 "2014-08-19T03:24:03Z")
It’s not “choice” if a woman must have an abortion .Like to save her life. Ok? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-abort-a-clearly-defective-fetus/695273.md?page=5)