# Should women be drafted into combat units (USA) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455 "2014-02-16T02:25:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/61 "2014-02-16T04:24:23Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I have a problem with ANYONE, be they male, female or canine being drafted. Again, how hard is that to understand? It’s in my very first post…the draft sucks. No one wants it…not the general public, not the ‘feminst’, not the politicians, no one. The only people in my experience who fret about the draft are usually anti-war lefties during presidential elections when we are off on some international adventure…and you, of course, who are cleverly trying to make points on ‘feminst’ for supposed hypocrisy. > > It’s not working btw…just a heads up. How’s it going on getting that cite? and this is what i expected. why can’t people just say men and women should be treated the same in all situations, no amendments or disclaimers, or, just admit they want equality most of the time but not all of the time? the very amount of nay saying on this thread indicates i’m on to something. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/62 "2014-02-16T04:27:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > On January 24, 2014 the US Army announced that 33,000 positions that were previously closed to women would integrate in the upcoming month of April,[20] though it still has yet to be determined if and when women may join the US Army’s Special Operations community. > > -wikipedia Yes, I’m aware of that, and have been for years now. Again, what does this have to do with your assertion in post #28 that ‘the military recently changed its official position. that is what i am referring to.’ What’s the change? The Army (and Marine Corps) have been discussing opening up combat billets to women for years now and have been working on exploring the ways of doing so for years. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/63 "2014-02-16T04:27:26Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It is not hypocritical to not fight for something that is against their own best interests. > > And it is not hypocritical to not fight for something that is not part of the mission of that group. exactly! you can admit that at least on some level this is a double standard, can you not? that is not to say 90% of your efforts shouldn’t be concentrated elsewhere but a double standard is still a double standard. i think this is the source of feminists being seen as being hypocritical in fact. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/64 "2014-02-16T04:27:30Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > and this is what i expected. why can’t people just say men and women should be treated the same in all situations, no amendments or disclaimers, or, just admit they want equality most of the time but not all of the time? the very amount of nay saying on this thread indicates i’m on to something. No one ever says all people should be treated exactly the same in all situations. What a load of nonsense. That’s why courts consider extenuating circumstances when determining sanctions. Employers consider previous experience in considering salaries. etc etc. > [@Robert163](#): > > exactly! > > you can admit that at least on some level this is a double standard, can you not? that is not to say 90% of your efforts shouldn’t be concentrated elsewhere but a double standard is still a double standard. i think this is the source of feminists being seen as being hypocritical in fact. Nope. It is not a double standard at all. What a strange interpretation. Why is it a double standard? This has become very tedious. Maybe I’ll check in again tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/65 "2014-02-16T04:28:37Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yes, I’m aware of that, and have been for years now. Again, what does this have to do with your assertion in post #28 that ‘the military recently changed its official position. that is what i am referring to.’ What’s the change? The Army (and Marine Corps) have been discussing opening up combat billets to women for years now and have been working on exploring the ways of doing so for years. discussing change and making change are different. they are now in the first steps of actually making change. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/66 "2014-02-16T04:30:23Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > No one ever says all people should be treated exactly the same in all situations. What a load of nonsense. > > That’s why courts consider extenuating circumstances when determining sanctions. Employers consider previous experience in considering salaries. etc etc. > > Nope. It is not a double standard at all. What a strange interpretation. Why is it a double standard? but isn’t the argument that a woman should be able to lead a platoon full of marines the exact definition of an argument that men and women should be treated the same in all situations? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/67 "2014-02-16T04:31:51Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > but isn’t the argument that a woman should be able to lead a platoon full of marines the exact definition of an argument that men and women should be treated the same in all situations? Ugh. One more reply. It’s like picking at a scab. Anyway- No, it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/68 "2014-02-16T04:32:57Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Ugh. One more reply. It’s like picking at a scab. > > Anyway- No, it’s not. why, because you say it isnt? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/69 "2014-02-16T04:36:52Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > discussing change and making change are different. they are now in the first steps of actually making change. And have been planning to do so FOR YEARS. Good grief. :rolleyes: So, to condense things, you have no cite to back up your assertion. Glad we cleared that up then. > [@](#): > > and this is what i expected. why can’t people just say men and women should be treated the same in all situations, no amendments or disclaimers, or, just admit they want equality most of the time but not all of the time? the very amount of nay saying on this thread indicates i’m on to something. Why can’t you admit you picked a bullshit topic in a hope to score some hypocrisy points and you’ve been called on it and made to look foolish? Your own cites show that women ARE being steadily integrated into the military in combat roles, which seems to have gone right over your head, and you continue to miss the point about the draft. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/70 "2014-02-16T04:39:41Z")
1. if there is a draft, men and women should both be eligible 2. there shouldn’t be, and probably won’t ever be, a draft 3. what is the justification for preventing anyone, of any gender, who can meet the requirements, from being a fighter pilot or in the marines? 4. to be a feminist you don’t have to think men and women should be treated the same in all situations ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/71 "2014-02-16T04:41:34Z")
> [@XT](#): > > And have been planning to do so FOR YEARS. Good grief. :rolleyes: So, to condense things, you have no cite to back up your assertion. Glad we cleared that up then. > > Why can’t you admit you picked a bullshit topic in a hope to score some hypocrisy points and you’ve been called on it and made to look foolish? Your own cites show that women ARE being steadily integrated into the military in combat roles, which seems to have gone right over your head, and you continue to miss the point about the draft. but i dont think it is a bullshit topic. i dont think women are as well suited to serve in combat as men. period. i think the public has a lot of ideas where they want to try to pretend that there is no difference and this thread and your complaints are proof of that. do i have it wrong, you are you saying women are just as qualified to be in combat as men? right? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/72 "2014-02-16T04:43:48Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > 1. > 2. to be a feminist you don’t have to think men and women should be treated the same in all situations ok, give me some examples that are feminist friendly AND coherent with their equality position, that men and women should be treated differently in some situations? because i really cant think of any. not being rude. i just cant think of any. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/73 "2014-02-16T04:50:15Z")
Robert, Once more, what did feminists do to you to make you have such an irrational, obsessive hatred of them. I ask because your posts don’t seem terribly rational, not because I’m trying to insult you. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/74 "2014-02-16T04:51:00Z")
[QUOTE=Robert163] but i dont think it is a bullshit topic. i dont think women are as well suited to serve in combat as men. period. [/QUOTE] Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. During WWII many folks were of the opinion that blacks weren’t suited to combat either. _shrug_ The fact of the matter, though, is that in the US, women are already allowed into combat roles, and future plans is to more fully allow them into those roles. > [@](#): > > i think the public has a lot of ideas where they want to try to pretend that there is no difference and this thread and your complaints are proof of that. Well, that’s because you’ve ignored the comments, either because you are incapable of understanding the point or because you are so fixated on what you believe that you don’t want too…or, some combination of the two. As far as I know, no one is saying there is no difference between men and women…if you don’t understand the difference I suggest you get a few Dummy’s Guide to Anatomy 101 books and explore the subject on your own. > [@](#): > > do i have it wrong, you are you saying women are just as qualified to be in combat as men? right? Depends on the woman…and the man. Some men are completely unqualified to the military, and by extension combat. Some women are as well. Conversely, some men are qualified AND since we have an all volunteer force those with the desire to serve their country can. The same goes for some women. Some roles have been denied to women in some of the military branches, but this is slowly changing. So, leaving aside the ridiculous and bullshit point of the draft, do I believe that women who want to and are qualified should be allowed to enter any and all branches of the military? Absolutely. If they are qualified (i.e. they WANT to be in the all volunteer military AND they meet all of the qualifications…just like men) then I don’t see why they shouldn’t be allowed into any and all branches. Can you explain why, if they meet the qualifications and want to be in the service they should be denied? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/75 "2014-02-16T04:57:55Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. During WWII many folks were of the opinion that blacks weren’t suited to combat either. _shrug_ The fact of the matter, though, is that in the US, women are already allowed into combat roles, and future plans is to more fully allow them into those roles. > > Well, that’s because you’ve ignored the comments, either because you are incapable of understanding the point or because you are so fixated on what you believe that you don’t want too…or, some combination of the two. As far as I know, no one is saying there is no difference between men and women…if you don’t understand the difference I suggest you get a few Dummy’s Guide to Anatomy 101 books and explore the subject on your own. > > Depends on the woman…and the man. Some men are completely unqualified to the military, and by extension combat. Some women are as well. Conversely, some men are qualified AND since we have an all volunteer force those with the desire to serve their country can. The same goes for some women. Some roles have been denied to women in some of the military branches, but this is slowly changing. > > So, leaving aside the ridiculous and bullshit point of the draft, do I believe that women who want to and are qualified should be allowed to enter any and all branches of the military? Absolutely. If they are qualified (i.e. they WANT to be in the all volunteer military AND they meet all of the qualifications…just like men) then I don’t see why they shouldn’t be allowed into any and all branches. Can you explain why, if they meet the qualifications and want to be in the service they should be denied? i dont think women have the natural level of aggressiveness needed to be in combat. and men are conditioned to the extent to protect women that its going to be difficult to fight alongside them. the roles of women that have thus far been in combat, have it been full fledged infantry combat or other examples where they were in just as much danger but in combat role of some other capacity? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/76 "2014-02-16T04:59:03Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > i dont think women are as well suited to serve in combat as men. period. > > \ > > do i have it wrong, you are you saying women are just as qualified to be in combat as men? right? All women? Every women is less qualified than every man? There are no men that are not qualified and no women that are? Do I have it wrong, or are you making the mistake that since men are, on average, more qualified for combat duty, that no women are? Do you know about the bell curve? Is it your contention that there is no overlap between the female bell curve and the male bell curve? ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/77 "2014-02-16T04:59:45Z")
There is no need for equality, the equal rights amendment failed to get the require 3/4 approval to be passed, in oh…1972? That being said I wish it had passed, then we could draft women, if there were a draft, which there is not. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/78 "2014-02-16T05:00:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Robert, > Once more, what did feminists do to you to make you have such an irrational, obsessive hatred of them. > > I ask because your posts don’t seem terribly rational, not because I’m trying to insult you. wow feminists haven’t done anything to me and for the most part i agree with their position. they do have some hypocritical ideas however. a few. so, i disagree with is the feminists are always right and if you disagree with them then people will ask you: Once more, what did feminists do to you to make you have such an irrational, obsessive hatred of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/79 "2014-02-16T05:01:10Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > i dont think women have the natural level of aggressiveness needed to be in combat. and men are conditioned to the extent to protect women that its going to be difficult to fight alongside them. The 1950s called. They want their cultural norms back. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455/80 "2014-02-16T05:04:03Z")
What about cops and firefighters? No women there, either? If not, how is that different from the military? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-drafted-into-combat-units-usa/681455.md?page=5)