# Should women be given special treatment in order to become Rangers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2017, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537 "2017-02-23T10:51:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/242 "2017-03-20T23:36:02Z")
Hey don’t leave us in suspense. Tell us all your menstrual cup war stories. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/243 "2017-03-21T01:50:17Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > That’s kind of like how we still have to perform algebraic manipulation by hand to pass junior high, high school, and college math courses. Yet in the real world, Mathematica can do any manipulation you can think of, and it won’t make mistakes at anything like the rate you do, and it’s instant. Sure, if your power fails you won’t be using it, but any task where you need an equation, you probably have power. If it’s after a hurricane and you’re fighting off looters, you probably don’t need to solve some linear algebra just then. > > So essentially to be an engineer or programmer or anything else, you need to show you have some talent on a task that you will never use unless you just don’t know how to use a tool to do it. Unfair, and it’s quite possible that some racial and gender groups have an easier time doing symbolic math than others. (_cough_asians_cough_) > > This is the same thing. And if you think about it, showing you have what it takes to be even a 3rd string Commando is a way to really show you got big brass ones. Literally - testicles appear to be basically required. And that’s worth a lot of points for promotion. White skin used to required too. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/244 "2017-03-21T03:18:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > White skin used to required too. The conclusion you reach is that the Army should _not_ water down it’s Commando training school just so particular people who do not meet the standards can pass. Don’t have the athleticism because of your age, gender, race, previous injuries, or lack of training? Too bad, you fail. You aren’t cut out to be a Commando. And instead if anything needs fixing, it’s the reliance on needing to be trained to fight behind enemy lines in order to be promoted in the Army equivalent of HR. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/245 "2017-03-21T13:07:08Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > The conclusion you reach is that the Army should _not_ water down it’s Commando training school just so particular people who do not meet the standards can pass. Don’t have the athleticism because of your age, gender, race, previous injuries, or lack of training? Too bad, you fail. You aren’t cut out to be a Commando. Ranger school is not commando training school. It is a leadership school. Rangers usually end up getting a ranger tab but it is not a prerequisite for becoming a ranger. Sure, leadership in a military environment requires a significant amount of physical ability but its not commando school. > [@](#): > > And instead if anything needs fixing, it’s the reliance on needing to be trained to fight behind enemy lines in order to be promoted in the Army equivalent of HR. AFAICT ranger tabs are one of the primary ways that inexperienced infantry officers can gain the credibility to lead combat missions. It is particularly important for people who more senior officers might be reluctant to put in charge of a unit. Like if you don’t have testicles. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/246 "2017-03-21T17:48:34Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > The NFL doesn’t care about “diversity”. They want the best players, period. Turns out that means a far higher percentage of blacks than occur in the general population. Why should the military not be the same way? > > Following this logic, the military should create a profile. Using an algorithm (machine learning can do this), figure out which combination of race, gender, size, weight, height, grades in school, age, and so on make the best soldiers. Offer people who fit the profile recruiting bonuses and preferential treatment. At boot camp you’d probably just see a few “steroetypical” soldiers. Would they be all blacks from the hood? All redneck farmers? All city slicker political science majors? Who knows, but a standardized cog works best in a machine like this. We work on a volunteer army and the only thing we want standard in all recruits is a desire and willingness to serve. We don’t need them to all have the same prior life experience, we try to burn that shit out of them during basic training and turn them into standardized cogs in all the ways that matter. Now having different perspectives on life can give you some advantages around the margins but it is only marginal. As I have explained repeatedly in this thread (and I don’t know ho0w many times I have to do it before people understand), the ranger tab is not a special forces insignia or anything like that. Ranger school is a leadership school not a special forces school. There is a large physical element to a leadership school in the military because fighting and killing is a pretty physical activity but the purpose of ranger school isn’t to figure out who the super soldier ninjas are. Once again RANGER SCHOOL IS NOT SPECIAL FORCES TRAINING. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/247 "2017-03-22T00:16:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Rangers usually end up getting a ranger tab but it is not a prerequisite for becoming a ranger. I was curious about this statement, so I asked an actual Army officer who I trust, quoting his reply: \*\*"Generally speaking, yes. All officers and NCOs are expected to be Ranger qualified (school) before being assigned to the 75th (unit). Rarely a low density MOS guy (S6, chemical dude) MIGHT get orders but it is understood and accepted he is going to school REAL soon. Junior enlisted are able to get “ranger contracts” for their first term where they are guaranteed Airborne school and assignment to 75th after graduating basic. Their life sucks. They are less than slaves at the mercy of the most sadistic Soldiers ever, E4s and new E5s with Ranger Tabs supervising non tabbed guys."\*\* So it seems like Officers and NCO do in fact have to go through Ranger school in order to be assigned to the Ranger Regiment, but junior enlisted not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/248 "2017-03-22T00:19:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So you think that ISIS might see our troops coming and say, “Hey, did you see that? Seventeen percent of those guys look like Muslims. Maybe we were wrong about this after all. Dismantle the terrorist camps immediately.” ? Doubtful, but the people they target for recruiting might… ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/249 "2017-03-22T01:04:58Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I was curious about this statement, so I asked an actual Army officer who I trust, quoting his reply: > > \*\*"Generally speaking, yes. All officers and NCOs are expected to be Ranger qualified (school) before being assigned to the 75th (unit). Rarely a low density MOS guy (S6, chemical dude) MIGHT get orders but it is understood and accepted he is going to school REAL soon. > > Junior enlisted are able to get “ranger contracts” for their first term where they are guaranteed Airborne school and assignment to 75th after graduating basic. Their life sucks. They are less than slaves at the mercy of the most sadistic Soldiers ever, E4s and new E5s with Ranger Tabs supervising non tabbed guys."\*\* > > So it seems like Officers and NCO do in fact have to go through Ranger school in order to be assigned to the Ranger Regiment, but junior enlisted not so much. So the 75th, which is basically a unit of 3rd string airborne commandos (second string is Green Beret, first string Delta Force/SEALs), uses Ranger school as a metric for qualification. This has been what I have been saying the whole time. Remember the scenes in Band of Brothers, where they get inserted by parachute the night of the invasion? Those guys. And yes, for a mission like that, the individual soldiers must carry enough ammo, water, body armor, rations, explosives, and everything else until the next time they are resupplied. Historically, there were incidents when the unit was cut off (happened during the Battle of the Bulge, happened during Vietnam, happened for a few hours during Black Hawk Down) and was down to whatever ammo and supplies they had carried in. This is basically a mission where nearly all girls, anyone over 35, anyone who is not born with the right genes for athleticism, anyone not able to tolerate sleep deprivation, anyone without incredible mental resilience, and so on need not apply. No worries. Only morons would want to be part of a unit like that, anyway. I personally think anyone who joins the Army in combat arms who doesn’t go for Armor is an idiot. Would you rather trudge on foot or have ~40 tons of hyper-advanced depleted uranium and ceramic armor around you, driven by a 1500 horsepower engine, and packing an enormous gun? Per an Armor officer I knew : RPG hits to the outside just leave a black smear. Bullets do nothing. One time, the other tank in his element ran over a 2000 lb buried IED. The blast knocked the loader out of his hatch and took the driver’s foot off (the Abrams doesn’t have very good armor on the underside)…but no one was killed. Oh yeah, the Abrams has thermals sights that make human beings in view glow, so it’s really easy to see people sneaking up. And aim compensation, so hitting another tank at a distance is pretty easy to do… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/250 "2017-03-22T01:34:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I was curious about this statement, so I asked an actual Army officer who I trust, quoting his reply: > > \*\*"Generally speaking, yes. All officers and NCOs are expected to be Ranger qualified (school) before being assigned to the 75th (unit). Rarely a low density MOS guy (S6, chemical dude) MIGHT get orders but it is understood and accepted he is going to school REAL soon. > > Junior enlisted are able to get “ranger contracts” for their first term where they are guaranteed Airborne school and assignment to 75th after graduating basic. Their life sucks. They are less than slaves at the mercy of the most sadistic Soldiers ever, E4s and new E5s with Ranger Tabs supervising non tabbed guys."\*\* > > So it seems like Officers and NCO do in fact have to go through Ranger school in order to be assigned to the Ranger Regiment, but junior enlisted not so much. [http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html](http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html) ---
**Author:** ![CosmicManiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CosmicManiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CosmicManiac)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/251 "2017-03-22T01:45:48Z")
No, women should not be given special treatment just because of their gender, that would be condescending to them, and it would undermine the meritocratic way of life we have in America. Assuming that a woman should be held to lower standards than men is really the epitome of the soft bigotry of low expectations. Special, extra training that men weren’t allowed to have? Why are they assuming that women need that extra help? Now, it’s important for women to be represented, of course, and the Rangers should seek out qualified women to train and hire, but not with rigid quotas. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/252 "2017-03-22T01:57:02Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Doubtful, but the people they target for recruiting might… Since Left Hand of Dorkness decided to run away from the obvious next question: how does that “might” square up with the fact that ISIS is at war with armies full of Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/253 "2017-03-22T02:00:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html](http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html) Not sure what that is expected to prove. Especially with lines like “For some duty positions, you will not serve in the Regiment until you successfully complete Ranger School” and “The 75th Ranger Regiment does require that its leaders attend the U.S. Army Ranger School” Which explicitly contradicts your statement of “Rangers usually end up getting a ranger tab but it is not a prerequisite for becoming a ranger” since apparently, even according to the FAQ you linked, it IS a prerequisite for becoming a leader in the Regiment. And unless you have something better than a FAQ on the [goarmy.com](http://goarmy.com) page, I’ll take the word of a US Army Colonel over you. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/254 "2017-03-22T02:02:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html](http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html) A few tidbits from that page : Upon successful completion of one of our Ranger Assessment & Selection Programs (RASP), we will send you to the appropriate schools in order to serve in the Ranger Regiment. For some duty positions,\*\* you will not serve in the Regiment until you successfully complete Ranger School\*\*. \*\* If you are unable to complete the course, you may be dropped from the Regiment\*\* and sent to serve at the needs of the Army. A Physical Training score of 240 or above (80% on each event) Keep in mind, a man who can reach a 240 is in absolute terms _much_ stronger than a woman who can reach a 240. He’s bigger and the actual thresholds are higher. It’s about 100 pushups in 2 minutes among other things - you need to be pretty jacked to achieve that. And lean as well, since you also need to complete the 2 mile run in 12:30 or so. So yes, my previous statements are definitely the case. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/255 "2017-03-22T02:06:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html](http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/joining-the-rangers/faq.html) From your link: > [@](#): > > The 75th Ranger Regiment does require that its leaders attend the U.S. Army Ranger School; however, it is not a pre-requisite to join the Ranger Regiment in all instances.The 75th Ranger Regiment does require that its leaders attend the U.S. Army Ranger School; however, it is not a pre-requisite to join the Ranger Regiment in all instances. All Infantry and Artillery Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) must complete the course before they assume a leadership role in the Regiment… All Infantry and Artillery Military Occupational Specialties (MOS) must complete the course before they assume a leadership role in the Regiment. Doesn’t look like you go too far without your Ranger tab. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/256 "2017-03-22T14:55:48Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > So the 75th, which is basically a unit of 3rd string airborne commandos (second string is Green Beret, first string Delta Force/SEALs), uses Ranger school as a metric for qualification. The SEALS aren’t part of the Army. They’re the Navy’s equivalent to Army’s SF Groups (the Green Berets.) Delta Force is a detachment from 1SFG, and is a specialized operations unit of the same. The Rangers aren’t “third-string commandos” by any lights. Most SF operators are also Rangers, and they certainly go through training that is more intense than Ranger School, but the Rangers aren’t a second string SF operation: they fulfill operations requiring company or larger sized units, instead of the fire-team to platoon sized operations SF Group handles. > [@](#): > > No worries. Only morons would want to be part of a unit like that, anyway. I personally think anyone who joins the Army in combat arms who doesn’t go for Armor is an idiot. Would you rather trudge on foot or have ~40 tons of hyper-advanced depleted uranium and ceramic armor around you, driven by a 1500 horsepower engine, and packing an enormous gun? The smart guys who enlist as 19K thinking the way you describe are the ones that are the most fun to watch getting sent out on long patrols with a ruck and an M-4 just like the infantry. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/257 "2017-03-22T18:12:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Not sure what that is expected to prove. Especially with lines like “For some duty positions, you will not serve in the Regiment until you successfully complete Ranger School” and “The 75th Ranger Regiment does require that its leaders attend the U.S. Army Ranger School” > > Which explicitly contradicts your statement of “Rangers usually end up getting a ranger tab but it is not a prerequisite for becoming a ranger” since apparently, even according to the FAQ you linked, I was clarifying and highlighting. I think your statement is generally true. Having ranger tab is not a prerequisite for becoming a ranger. That was the comment you were responding to and I thought you were agreeing with me. Maybe not. > [@](#): > > it IS a prerequisite for becoming a leader in the Regiment. Sure but its not a requirement for becoming an army ranger. Most folks with ranger tabs aren’t in ranger battalion. There are maybe 2000 Army Rangers there are probably at least as many ranger school grads who aren’t in the Army rangers. > [@](#): > > And unless you have something better than a FAQ on the [goarmy.com](http://goarmy.com) page, I’ll take the word of a US Army Colonel over you. I’ll take the published comments of the US army over your recollection of a conversation you had with a colonel. I still haven’t identified what it is that we are disagreeing on. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/258 "2017-03-22T18:17:40Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > A few tidbits from that page : > > Upon successful completion of one of our Ranger Assessment & Selection Programs (RASP), we will send you to the appropriate schools in order to serve in the Ranger Regiment. For some duty positions,\*\* you will not serve in the Regiment until you successfully complete Ranger School\*\*. \*\* If you are unable to complete the course, you may be dropped from the Regiment\*\* and sent to serve at the needs of the Army. > > A Physical Training score of 240 or above (80% on each event) > > Keep in mind, a man who can reach a 240 is in absolute terms _much_ stronger than a woman who can reach a 240. He’s bigger and the actual thresholds are higher. It’s about 100 pushups in 2 minutes among other things - you need to be pretty jacked to achieve that. And lean as well, since you also need to complete the 2 mile run in 12:30 or so. > > So yes, my previous statements are definitely the case. Ranger school is still not commando school, it is a leadership school. How important is physical strength as a leadership quality? I suspect most of the candidates at ranger school have no interest in becoming an Army Ranger. I am 50 years old and about 20 pounds overweight and I can do 50 pushups in 1 minute. I suspect I could do 100 in 2 minutes with a few months of training. honest to God, I suspect most physically fit 20 year olds could meet the bare physical requirements. Its the other stuff that really kills you. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/259 "2017-03-22T18:20:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > From your link: > > Doesn’t look like you go too far without your Ranger tab. Still not prerequisite. Ranger school is still not commando school. We are not endangering lives or the mission by letting women get ranger tabs. It is not clear that physical strength is nearly as important as physical endurance. Being able to think clearly after 2 nights without sleep seems to be a much more important leadership ability that bench pressing a thousand pounds. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/260 "2017-03-22T18:23:53Z")
It looks like it is actually a prerequisite in a number of instances. Your linked FAQ says “it is not a pre-requisite to join the Ranger Regiment in all instances.” which strongly implies it often is. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537/261 "2017-03-22T18:25:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Still not prerequisite. Ranger school is still not commando school. We are not endangering lives or the mission by letting women get ranger tabs. It is not clear that physical strength is nearly as important as physical endurance. Being able to think clearly after 2 nights without sleep seems to be a much more important leadership ability that bench pressing a thousand pounds. I’m not sure this is true. In some circumstances, leadership has zero to do with physical skills at all. But in a circumstance where you’re leading a group who is focused on physical skills, then being exceptional yourself in those same physical skills helps with the leadership angle as well. That’s why superstar athletes assume leadership roles on their teams. That doesn’t mean there aren’t coaches who had negligible athletic talents. But being talented is certainly a big part of it too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-women-be-given-special-treatment-in-order-to-become-rangers/780537.md?page=14)