# Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329 "2019-11-12T15:31:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/41 "2019-11-12T19:27:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Dates are about determining compatibility. If someone is really worried about the possibility of dating someone with their non-preferred below-the-belt physical features, they are free to ask potential dates. And those potential dates are free to decide that they are not compatible with someone who finds this so important that they insist on asking before the date, since that might be a sign of transphobia (the urgency and fear, not the preference). > > I don’t think there’s any problem with having preferences for physical features of any type – hair color/length/texture, height, build, etc., including what’s in their pants. But if you’re afraid that you might hold hands with, or hug, or kiss someone with the wrong “equipment”, or you’re afraid of what others might think, or have some other _fear_ about the possibility of dating someone with something in their pants that you’d prefer they don’t have, then IMO you should take a good long look at your own possible bigotries. > > IOW, it’s totally fine if you’d prefer not to date or have as intimate partners folks with certain physical features. But if you’re _afraid_ of the possibility of even dating such an individual, then you might have some deep-seated bigotries that, IMO, good folks should want to get past. Did you ask your dates if they were bigots on the first outing? I’m pretty sure from your posting history that you would have been appalled at the notion of even dating such a person. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/42 "2019-11-12T19:32:50Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Did you ask your dates if they were bigots on the first outing? I’m pretty sure from your posting history that you would have been appalled at the notion of even dating such a person. No to the first question. I recall a date I had 20 years ago (college) in which the young woman gave a pretty clear indication of racism just minutes into our date, and I made an excuse and left. Yes, I would have avoided dating anyone I knew to be a bigot (when I was single – I’ve been married for 10 years now). How about you? And do you disagree with anything I wrote? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/43 "2019-11-12T19:47:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No to the first question. I recall a date I had 20 years ago (college) in which the young woman gave a pretty clear indication of racism just minutes into our date, and I made an excuse and left. > > Yes, I would have avoided dating anyone I knew to be a bigot (when I was single – I’ve been married for 10 years now). How about you? And do you disagree with anything I wrote? I’m looking to you as our paradigm of negotiating this thorny issue. So, you’re on a hypothetical date and your companion gets pissed off at a black person in a bar and uses the biggest baddest racial epithet of them all. It is the big reveal of their racism. What do you do? How should this be handled differently from someone else out on a date and the big reveal of their companion’s plumbing proves to be counter to what s/he expected and wanted? In either case, it comes down to “I’m not attracted to someone like you” when reduced to simplest terms. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/44 "2019-11-12T19:51:37Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m looking to you as our paradigm of negotiating this thorny issue. So, you’re on a hypothetical date and your companion gets pissed off at a black person in a bar and uses the biggest baddest racial epithet of them all. It is the big reveal of their racism. What do you do? I’d probably be shocked and say something like “that’s a horrible thing to say”, and then I’d leave. What would you do? > [@](#): > > How should this be handled differently from someone else out on a date and the big reveal of their companion’s plumbing proves to be counter to what s/he expected and wanted? In either case, it comes down to “I’m not attracted to someone like you” when reduced to simplest terms. In this case, I’d probably politely excuse myself, and say something like “I’m sorry, I don’t think we’re compatible”. I’d treat them differently because one is a moral defect/failing and the other is just a physical/intimate preference. There’s nothing wrong with the person in the latter case; there is something wrong in the former. What about you? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/45 "2019-11-12T19:53:18Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If he knew she was trans, this suggests they had established openness before physical intimacy began. So I’m surprised “pre-op or not” didn’t come up in conversation. I wouldn’t necessarily make that assumption, particularly if this was a random hook-up between strangers, and not a “date” in the more traditional sense. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, it is just as foolish to not be upfront about something when the probability is high it would be your partner’s dealbreaker, especially if the truth will be discovered just as soon as sex begins. As the saying goes, when people hear hooves, they think horses not zebras. If you’re a women dating a man, you’re generally going to assume he has a standard male package, not a female’s. It would be one thing if there was no functional difference between “horses” and “zebras”, but that’s not true. There are most costs than benefits to not ensuring your dating partner knows your equipment defies expectation. The tricky thing here is, if you know the person you’re about to get naked with is trans, which expectation is horses, and which is zebras? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/46 "2019-11-12T19:53:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with the person in the latter case; there is something wrong in the former. > > What about you? If we are to follow the lead set for us in the Slate article, there is something wrong with you (and with me) for leaving in the second situation. FTR, I would excuse myself from the engagement in both situations. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/47 "2019-11-12T20:01:39Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > If we are to follow the lead set for us in the Slate article, there is something wrong with you (and with me) for leaving in the second situation. The Slate article says no such thing. It explicitly takes the opposite stance. > [@Rich Juzwiak](#): > > Desire is so complicated. Is it possible for someone who isn’t bigoted in any way to simply not want a penis that isn’t his in his bedroom? I feel like yes, that is possible. People are very specific in their desires and so infrequently can specify what the origin of those desires is that the best we can do is trust them. We’re not talking about logic here. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/48 "2019-11-12T20:02:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If you accept the premise that transwomen are women and you accept the premise that a straight man is attracted to women, then a straight man should be attracted to transwomen. That’s an obvious logical fallacy: your two premises do not imply the conclusion you’re trying to draw from them. Few or no straight men are attracted to **all** women, just as few or no straight women are attracted to **all** men. For instance, some straight men aren’t attracted to short-haired women, or tattooed women, or fat women, or tall women, and they have the right not to pursue a romantic relationship or encounter with someone they’re not attracted to. Similarly, some straight men aren’t attracted to transwomen, and have the right not to pursue a romantic relationship or encounter with a woman who happens to be trans. However, if genitalia or any other criteria are a dealbreaker for you in dating, it’s on you to make that clear to potential partners if you want potential partners with those characteristics to avoid you. It’s not a transgender person’s responsibility to preemptively declare what their genitals are like just so you don’t have to be the one to bring the subject up. As for the alleged advice column mentioned in the OP, while there’s nothing wrong with encouraging people to consider sexually experimenting with characteristics they initially assumed they could never find attractive, of course nobody should be forced or shamed into a sexual situation with someone whom they really **don’t** find attractive. Just say “No thanks, I’m not comfortable with this” and leave with a clear conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/49 "2019-11-12T20:02:59Z")
The only safe thing to do is to send pictures of your junk to everyone you might possibly end up dating. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/50 "2019-11-12T20:05:55Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > If we are to follow the lead set for us in the Slate article, there is something wrong with you (and with me) for leaving in the second situation. Not by my reading ( **Miller** provides the relevant quote). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/51 "2019-11-12T20:08:00Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The only safe thing to do is to send pictures of your junk to everyone you might possibly end up dating. This seems like a solid plan, and I can’t imagine any possible objection to it. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/52 "2019-11-12T20:08:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That’s an obvious logical fallacy: your two premises do not imply the conclusion you’re trying to draw from them. Few or no straight men are attracted to **all** women, just as few or no straight women are attracted to **all** men. holy shit are you serious ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/53 "2019-11-12T20:13:23Z")
The farther you get into a relationship, and the more invested you get into it, the higher the bar becomes for dealbreakers. If I dated a woman for six months and was crazy in love \*then \*found out she was pre-op trans, I honestly don’t know what I’d do. (Not realistic it would go that long without my finding out, however). If I found out on or before the first date, it would immediately become a platonic relationship. But I’m with **Acsenray** that you have a right to like what you like without everybody getting judgy on you. Declining a date with a trans person is not a hate crime, or discrimination, or anything else negative. It’s just your preference. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/54 "2019-11-12T20:36:28Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The only safe thing to do is to send pictures of your junk to everyone you might possibly end up dating. I am told that including a picture in your profile on dating websites also leads to greater success. So you might be onto something there. Also if you include a picture of a pet. So if I ever need to use a dating website, I will post a picture of my dog’s junk, and wait for the emails to come flooding in. My dating ad would read - > [@](#): > > Open minded person, into necrophilia, scat play, bondage, and clown porn, seeks like-minded couple willing to let me watch as you copulate with a large Swiss cheese while dressed as Little Bo Peep. > > No weirdos please. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/55 "2019-11-12T20:43:02Z")
SWISS cheese? You sicko! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/56 "2019-11-12T20:44:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The tricky thing here is, if you know the person you’re about to get naked with is trans, which expectation is horses, and which is zebras? I probably wouldn’t make any assumption, but that depends on how far it seems the woman has transitioned. If I were the trans woman, I wouldn’t make any assumptions about my partner’s assumption. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/57 "2019-11-12T20:46:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My dating ad would read - > > > [@](#): > > > > Open minded person, into necrophilia, scat play, bondage, and clown porn, seeks like-minded couple willing to let me watch as you copulate with a large Swiss cheese while dressed as Little Bo Peep. > > > > No weirdos please. > > Regards, > Shodan I knew you sounded familiar. But as I’ve told you before, I’m lactose intolerant. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/58 "2019-11-12T20:55:59Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > holy shit are you serious Yes. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/59 "2019-11-12T21:23:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yes. Wow. How’s he going to get himself out of this one? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/60 "2019-11-12T22:23:15Z")
Well if it’s online dating or something you are free to post your preferences in your profile, or even say them aloud to a person you ask, they can then make a judgement about going out with you. No one really has a duty to be upfront about anything. Even if you list a preference, the person could still just lie anyway and they commonly do. Say a woman is on a dating website or app and specifically puts on her profile I only date men 6’ tall. A guy contacts her and his profile lists his height at 6’ but in reality he is 5’11", people fudge stuff like that all the time for the purposes of dating. You can be upfront with your preferences, the other person is not really obligated to volunteer it, even if they did, they might be lying anyway. But be upfront with your preferences and maybe that will at least weed out a lot of people, who can decide if those preferences are a dealbreaker for them as well. It’s weird how these threads tend to ignite so many colorful responses when probably over 99% of guys never have to deal with this situation anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329.md?page=4)