# Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329 "2019-11-12T15:31:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/61 "2019-11-12T22:24:20Z")
Thousands of Sailors have probably thought about this for a few minutes in Bangkok, but really the presence of an adams apple should entail a few questions. But other than that, the onus should be on the changeling to ensure that the potential dating pool is aware of ModKit vs OEM factory before progressing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/62 "2019-11-12T23:08:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Few or no straight men are attracted to **all** women, just as few or no straight women are attracted to **all** men. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > holy shit are you serious What on earth is supposed to be non-serious about pointing out that just because a given person is attracted to a given gender, that doesn’t mean they’re attracted to all members of that gender? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/63 "2019-11-12T23:13:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The problem with this whole trans issue (not just this, but in general,) is that you cannot expect surface logic to overcome deep, visceral instinct. Some people think women have a deep, visceral instinct to woo only good providers. Does this mean a man with a poor credit score should disclose this information on the second date? Some people think men have a deep, visceral instinct to woo only fertile women. Does this mean a woman should disclose her hysterectomy on the first date? I don’t think a person with “surprise” genitalia should do the disclosure as they are pulling off their clothes. That would be triflin’. However, I gotta think that most mature people who are interested in taking things to the next level already schedule a “pre-meeting”, wherein awkward topics like medical status and contraception usage (and maybe even feelings about abortion) are laid out on the table before sex is initiated. I don’t really see why genitalia can’t be a part of this conversation since many cis-gendered people already use this as an opportunity to talk about their parts. A woman might bring up her vaginismus, while a guy might talk about his ED. If a couple doesn’t care enough to have a “pre-meeting” like this, then maybe they aren’t mature enough to have sex in the 21st century. I gotta think most people are capable of overriding their “deep, visceral instincts” if they are looking for a meaningful relationship with a real person. Otherwise there would be fewer couples out there. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/64 "2019-11-12T23:18:10Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > What on earth is supposed to be non-serious about pointing out that just because a given person is attracted to a given gender, that doesn’t mean they’re attracted to all members of that gender? Because it’s an incredibly stupid thing to point out? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/65 "2019-11-12T23:29:12Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Because it’s an incredibly stupid thing to point out? It’s no more stupid than this – > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If you accept the premise that transwomen are women and you accept the premise that a straight man is attracted to women, then a straight man should be attracted to transwomen. Yes, you can choose to define “women” as a set that includes both cis-women and trans-women. But that’s an arbitrary choice. You can also define “women” to mean only cis-women and to exclude trans-women. These are linguistic choices. Choosing one of these linguistic rubrics isn’t a valid basis for the conclusion that “a straight man should be attracted to transwomen.” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/66 "2019-11-12T23:40:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I gotta think most people are capable of overriding their “deep, visceral instincts” if they are looking for a meaningful relationship with a real person. Otherwise there would be fewer couples out there. I see no reason whatsoever to believe this - quite the contrary, I think if any member of a couple attempted to override their “deep, visceral instincts”, then they’d end up either breaking up or miserable in weeks. If everybody was willing to completely abandon their preferences and scruples, I imagine that there wouldn’t be any single people left. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/67 "2019-11-12T23:40:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s no more stupid than this – There’s nothing remotely stupid about that quote. > [@](#): > > Yes, you can choose to define “women” as a set that includes both cis-women and trans-women. But that’s an arbitrary choice. Yes, and if you do, then the set of “people you would be willing to date” should include transwomen. There’s a lot of people who define “women” as including both cis and trans women, but who balk at the idea of dating a trans women. Those are the people that post is referring to. The people who don’t include trans women in the set of “women” aren’t the subject of the sentence. > [@](#): > > You can also define “women” to mean only cis-women and to exclude trans-women. These are linguistic choices. What? No. Not even remotely. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/68 "2019-11-12T23:42:23Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Some people think women have a deep, visceral instinct to woo only good providers. Does this mean a man with a poor credit score should disclose this information on the second date? Yeah, it does, if the woman says that’s important to her. And the man also has the right to say he doesn’t want anything to do with a woman if that’s her top priority. That’s how this whole dating/relationship thing works. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/69 "2019-11-12T23:45:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yes, and if you do, then the set of “people you would be willing to date” should include transwomen. There’s a lot of people who define “women” as including both cis and trans women, but who balk at the idea of dating a trans women. Those are the people that post is referring to. > > The people who don’t include trans women in the set of “women” aren’t the subject of the sentence. I disagree, and think that your position is absurd. For it to even have a chance of being true, the set of “people you would be willing to date” would have to include all women. Old ones, young ones, married ones, imprisoned ones, siblings, all of them. If that is not the case, you can’t cavalierly state that just because I say I like women I have to want to bang any woman I see. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/70 "2019-11-12T23:48:31Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If everybody was willing to completely abandon their preferences and scruples, I imagine that there wouldn’t be any single people left. You’re putting words in my mouth to argue a strawman. I didn’t say anything about “everybody” completely abandoning preferences and scruples. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/71 "2019-11-12T23:55:30Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You’re putting words in my mouth to argue a strawman. I didn’t say anything about “everybody” completely abandoning preferences and scruples. I was putting words in my own mouth. Did you not see the “I imagine that” in the text you quoted? Your position was that “most people” are capable of overriding their “deep, visceral instincts” if they were looking for a real relationship, with the implication that this is happening all over the place otherwise there would be fewer couples than they are. I think that you don’t really get what the term “deep, visceral instincts” means. It ain’t something shallow, easily discarded, or intentionally adopted. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/72 "2019-11-13T00:04:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I was putting words in my own mouth. Did you not see the “I imagine that” in the text you quoted? > > Your position was that “most people” are capable of overriding their “deep, visceral instincts” if they were looking for a real relationship, with the implication that this is happening all over the place otherwise there would be fewer couples than they are. I think that you don’t really get what the term “deep, visceral instincts” means. It ain’t something shallow, easily discarded, or intentionally adopted. If you ask my father if he has a deep-seated “instinct” towards skinny blondes, he would say “HELL YES!!” But did he marry a skinny blonde? Did he father children with a skinny blonde? No. He married a fat black woman. And he’s been happily married to this fat black woman for over 50 years. All of this is to say that “deep, visceral instinct” is 99% bullshit and can be thus be overridden if someone has an open enough mind. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/73 "2019-11-13T00:07:36Z")
So if you claim to be a heterosexual or a homosexual you are a bigot? Anyone who isn’t a bigot should be sufficiently open minded to be willing to enter into a sexual/romantic relationship with any kind of human? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/74 "2019-11-13T00:10:04Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If you ask my father if he has a deep-seated “instinct” towards skinny blondes, he would say “HELL YES!!” > > But did he marry a skinny blonde? Did he father children with a skinny blonde? > > No. He married a fat black woman. And he’s been happily married to this fat black woman for over 50 years. > > All of this is to say that “deep, visceral instinct” is 99% bullshit and can be thus be overridden if someone has an open enough mind. I reiterate, I think that you don’t really get what the term “deep, visceral instincts” means. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/75 "2019-11-13T00:13:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So if you claim to be a heterosexual or a homosexual you are a bigot? Anyone who isn’t a bigot should be sufficiently open minded to be willing to enter into a sexual/romantic relationship with any kind of human? This seems to be the direction things are headed in. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/76 "2019-11-13T00:17:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The person writing in to the column is okay with dating trans women in general, and was totally down for sexy times with one particular trans woman until they got their clothes off and he saw she was pre-op. I don’t think pointing out that he could still have had sexy times without having to do anything with her penis is necessarily asking him to “date anyone regardless of … sexual preference.” It’s possible that’s still a hard “no” for the dude, and that’s okay - but that means that if he’s still open to dating trans women, he’s going to potentially find himself in a similar situation later on, because really, there is no way to ask about a trans woman’s genitals without being an asshole. Is there a way to phrase things so it’s not about the other person’s genitals, but about the speaker’s preferences? Perhaps, instead of saying “I will only date ciswomen and post-bottom surgery transwomen but not pre-op transwomen” (which all about someone else’s genitals) it might be better to phrase it as “Looking for women interested in vaginal intercourse.”? There might even be a better way to express it, if that would be an acceptable way to talk about the preference. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/77 "2019-11-13T00:26:07Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I like the shape of classical female anatomy; it’s a specifically _sexual_ liking, and constitutes my earliest sexual feelings (or the earliest I have any awareness of at any rate), a disconcertingly naughty fascination for what I thought of, at that age, as the place girls pee from. > > I am never going to complain that I have been “set up” or “misled” if it should turn out that a person I’ve been ostensibly flirting with, dating, or even making out with in some sense of the word turns out to have classical male anatomy instead. But I reserve the right to discontinue the sexual experimentations and I’m entitled to my disappointments and my aesthetic sexual tastes. I’m not saying that would be the outcome – I’ve never been in such a situation where there was any kind of rapport or emotional intimacy or other connection that would give me reason to consider otherwise. But it seems _likely_ that such would be my reaction, in all honesty. Very sensible. I would be a bit disappointed if the guy I was interested in getting into bed turned out to be a woman, but it would be easier dealing with it as [as was pointed out] dildos could always be used for penetration. On the other hand, if you wanted a female, and ended up with a surprise penis instead of female genitalia while buttsex on the guy [for a guy not for a female] is possible, but I have actually met a couple guys who were totally disgusted at the idea of screwing even a female in the ass. I suppose that for a female looking for a female, a surprise penis might be a total turn off [well, I have been known to go both ways, so I would just adjust, but many people are totally one way or the other …] ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/78 "2019-11-13T00:38:01Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > But other than that, the onus should be on the changeling to ensure that the potential dating pool is aware of ModKit vs OEM factory before progressing. Nope. If anybody in the potential dating pool feels that it’s crucial for them to have that information before progressing, the onus is on them to ask about it. Some (most) women have OEM-factory genitalia, some (a very small minority of) women have post-OEM modified ones. No woman is under any obligation whatsoever to announce either of those facts to their entire “potential dating pool”. > [@Acsenray](#): > > So if you claim to be a heterosexual or a homosexual you are a bigot? Who is accusing anybody of being a bigot simply for identifying as heterosexual or homosexual, or any other orientation? For that matter, who is accusing anybody of being a bigot simply for not being attracted to a particuar genital configuration? I mean, hell yes there is a massive societal breakdown and catastrophic chaos going on in that straw universe of yours, but that bears little relation to what’s happening over here in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/79 "2019-11-13T00:46:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I am told that including a picture in your profile on dating websites also leads to greater success. So you might be onto something there. > > Also if you include a picture of a pet. So if I ever need to use a dating website, I will post a picture of my dog’s junk, and wait for the emails to come flooding in. > > My dating ad would read - > > > [@](#): > > > > Open minded person, into necrophilia, scat play, bondage, and clown porn, seeks like-minded couple willing to let me watch as you copulate with a large Swiss cheese while dressed as Little Bo Peep. > > > > No weirdos please. > > Regards, > Shodan I miss Bloom County. > [@Acsenray](#): > > So if you claim to be a heterosexual or a homosexual you are a bigot? Anyone who isn’t a bigot should be sufficiently open minded to be willing to enter into a sexual/romantic relationship with any kind of human? Nobody said that. The slope you’re standing on sure is slippery. ---
**Author:** ![webgrunt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/48db29/32.png) [@webgrunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/webgrunt)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/80 "2019-11-13T00:48:58Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Apparently, prefering oysters over snails _is_ now a matter of morality, not taste. We are not only not permitted to prefer one over the other, we may not even differentiate between them. Since when did you need someone’s permission to have a preference? Do you actually think everyone has to approve of your choices and if they instead judge them unfavorably then you’re somehow being victimized by being denied a choice? 😕 You realize that there have _always_ been silly people who make harsh moral judgements about things which don’t affect them in the slightest, right? Giving weight to those judgements is something you choose to (or choose not to) do. You seem to be choosing to give weight to them, and complaining about your choice. If someone said that preferring your soda or beer cold rather than hot makes you a plant, you’d probably just laugh; but of someone else says that if a certain body part is a turn-off for you then you’re an immoral person, why wouldn’t you also laugh at that? It’s the same thing. Letting what people say bother you is a choice. If you make that choice and complain about it, then keep right on drinking your cold soda or beer, you maple tree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329.md?page=5)