# Should you expect to know what genitals a person has before a first date? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329 "2019-11-12T15:31:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/161 "2019-11-14T16:00:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :rolleyes: They’re called “women”. Transgender people who identify as women are correctly referred to as “women”. > > If it’s necessary for some reason to differentiate them from cisgender women, then they are called “transgender women”. It’s really not that difficult. > > If you personally don’t want to date a transgender woman, either after your wife’s death or behind your wife’s back or in any other circumstances, that’s totally up to you. But there’s nothing untruthful about transgender women on dating sites referring to themselves as “women”. If you feel you need to find out whether a woman you might want to date is transgender or cisgender, _ **it’s on you to ask her** _. > > Although I suppose trying to screen out transgender women by using derogatory assholish nicknames for them is a potentially workable alternative strategy. At least it would probably ensure you’d only date people holding similarly assholish transphobic views. Where issues like that are irrelevant such as rental accommodations or employment I agree with you but in our personal lives there’s no reason one should have to put up with that BS. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/162 "2019-11-14T16:04:00Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wonder how many guys who believe they are entitled to know whether a woman they take on a first date has a dick would eagerly reveal their most unattractive quality to a woman who asks them out on a date. A more reasonable equivalent than the examples you gave would be letting a woman know ahead of time that I don’t identify as a man; that to whatever extent she counts on male people to manifest certain characteristics and behaviors, in my case she should count on being disappointed in that regard. It’s a major turnoff to a lot of women and a disconcerting experience that’s usually interpreted as “gee I guess he isn’t interested in me” or some such thing to a lot of others. Damn right I warn them in advance. Doing so screens out people whose time I would be wasting, along with my own. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/163 "2019-11-14T16:05:00Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > A “woman” with a dick isn’t a woman. > > There’s women, and trans women. There’s nothing bigoted about having a preference for one or the other. There’s something quite bigoted about what you just posted. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/164 "2019-11-14T16:06:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If they know that, which they won’t, in most cases. So then perhaps people who don’t want to date trans people should put that in their profiles. In most cases, people are hetero. Unless the person is trying to meet people in a gay bar, the default assumption is hetero. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/165 "2019-11-14T16:57:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > In most cases, people are hetero. Unless the person is trying to meet people in a gay bar, the default assumption is hetero. “Heterosexual” doesn’t rule out dating trans people. Most men who date trans women are heterosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/166 "2019-11-14T17:29:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Heterosexual” doesn’t rule out dating trans people. Most men who date trans women are heterosexual. Even so, the trans population is a tiny fraction of the whole, and my point remains that the courteous thing to do is disclose. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/167 "2019-11-14T17:38:33Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Even so, the trans population is a tiny fraction of the whole, and my point remains that the courteous thing to do is disclose. Because otherwise, you might have to go through the rigorous ordeal of spending an evening with someone without having sex with them? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/168 "2019-11-14T17:43:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because otherwise, you might have to go through the rigorous ordeal of spending an evening with someone without having sex with them? Because it is a waste of time for all concerned. I don’t like having my time wasted. I don’t like to waste other people’s time. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/169 "2019-11-14T18:02:27Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > A more reasonable equivalent than the examples you gave would be letting a woman know ahead of time that I don’t identify as a man; that to whatever extent she counts on male people to manifest certain characteristics and behaviors, in my case she should count on being disappointed in that regard. > > It’s a major turnoff to a lot of women and a disconcerting experience that’s usually interpreted as “gee I guess he isn’t interested in me” or some such thing to a lot of others. > > Damn right I warn them in advance. Doing so screens out people whose time I would be wasting, along with my own. I understand that is how you would do it. But would you fault someone else for accepting an invitation for a first date without first going into an exposition on their gender identity in a completely unprompted way? Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/170 "2019-11-14T18:04:56Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Even so, the trans population is a tiny fraction of the whole, and my point remains that the courteous thing to do is disclose. Then such folks who don’t want to date trans people can disclose it. Asking trans folks to out themselves to strangers increases their risk of being assaulted. I’m unaware of any statistics indicating that people increase their risk of assault by stating that they would prefer not to date trans people. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/171 "2019-11-14T18:15:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Because it is a waste of time for all concerned. I don’t like having my time wasted. I don’t like to waste other people’s time. And if you don’t get laid, it’s a waste of time? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/172 "2019-11-14T18:22:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And if you don’t get laid, it’s a waste of time? Why else would you be dating somebody if it doesn’t lead to getting laid? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/173 "2019-11-14T18:25:07Z")
I thought incels were wanting companionship and not just about sex? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/174 "2019-11-14T18:29:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And if you don’t get laid, it’s a waste of time? To be fair, IF what the person IS trying is to get laid… ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/175 "2019-11-14T18:36:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And if you don’t get laid, it’s a waste of time? Dude, I’m married. I know all about spending evenings without getting laid. That’s not the deal. If I was single and asking someone on a date, I’d be interested in pursuing a romantic relationship. That’s just not possible for me with someone that is trans. Tell me up front, and we both can move on to other opportunities, no harm no foul. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/176 "2019-11-14T18:38:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then such folks who don’t want to date trans people can disclose it. Asking trans folks to out themselves to strangers increases their risk of being assaulted. I’m unaware of any statistics indicating that people increase their risk of assault by stating that they would prefer not to date trans people. I’d say not outing themselves to someone prior to a date increases their chance of being assaulted. Lots of people really don’t appreciate that sort of surprise. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/177 "2019-11-14T18:42:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’d say not outing themselves to someone prior to a date increases their chance of being assaulted. Lots of people really don’t appreciate that sort of surprise. Do you have personal experience with this? I don’t; I tend to trust trans people who generally rely on their own personal experiences. It makes sense to me that someone might want to find out through personal interaction what kind of person they’re interacting with before revealing information that puts them at risk. It doesn’t mean waiting until the bedroom. But something like “hey, I like you – before we go any further, there’s something you should know about me…”, at the end of a date while waiting for the check at a restaurant, or something, strikes me as the best balance. Or folks who don’t want to date trans people can disclose it at the beginning. Both ideas minimize the risk of harm to folks. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/178 "2019-11-14T18:45:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But something like “hey, I like you – before we go any further, there’s something you should know about me…”, at the end of a date while waiting for the check at a restaurant, or something, strikes me as the best balance. This seems reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/179 "2019-11-14T18:52:02Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I understand that is how you would do it. But would you fault someone else for accepting an invitation for a first date without first going into an exposition on their gender identity in a completely unprompted way? It’s not the obligation of transgender or genderqueer people to do so. Trans people don’t owe the rest of a world a heads-up. People can just cope. They aren’t freaking entitled to a distant early warning klaxon as if trans folks were a threat to public safety. It might, however, be in the best interests of the transgender or genderqueer person to do so, for their own reasons. I very much find that to be true for me. Somebody else’s mileage may, of course, vary. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329/180 "2019-11-14T18:55:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Heterosexual” doesn’t rule out dating trans people. Most men who date trans women are heterosexual. Nonetheless, most heterosexual people will not date a transgender person. > [@](#): > > Virtually all heterosexuals excluded trans folks from their dating pool: only 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men chose a trans person of either binary gender. [Cite](https://www.them.us/story/cis-trans-dating). The vast majority will not date a transgender person. This majority is overwhelming among self-identified heterosexuals. Among gay people it’s somewhat less but still a large majority - > [@](#): > > But most non-heterosexuals weren’t down for dating a trans person either, with only 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians being trans-inclusive in their dating preferences. It seems odd to insist that the needs of the many must give way to the needs of the (very) few. 90% think like I do, 10% think like you do, therefore it is up to you to make your preferences clear. IMO, not. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m unaware of any statistics indicating that people increase their risk of assault by stating that they would prefer not to date trans people. What are the statistics of people increasing their risk of assault by listing their transgenderism on a website vs. doing so in person? If you don’t have any, then I will point out that the risk is going to be inherently greater revealing it in person, because it is relatively hard to beat someone up on a website. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-you-expect-to-know-what-genitals-a-person-has-before-a-first-date/843329.md?page=10)