If you want to simply cry about it, that’s okay. I can tell you’re crying, because I’m a magician who reads other people’s emotions through the computer screen, then uses what I’ve decided they’re feeling in place of an actual argument.
I’ve repeatedly noted that I don’t think anyone is obligated to give. I was pointing out that there are solutions to the problems you mentioned other than not giving, which is of course no kind of solution at all. If you’re already trying them and just didn’t indicate that in your post, then perhaps you should have included that relevant point.
Never give them money and do call the cops on them. When they are not begging, they are breaking into homes/businesses in the area.
We had a crew of beggars working the intersection near my school. After a couple of calls to the cops, we had officers checking warrants on the guys daily. They vanished and the crime rate went down drastically.
Given that there is still a homeless problem, how effective are organizations that normally deal with this sort of thing? Do they end up giving more of their money to people in poverty, who still have homes, or what? Who would be the most effective at finding homes for the homeless? Is it the police, since they have the power to “force” the people off the street? Do people have an inherent right to be homeless?
Howdy. I’m new here and this will be my first foray into the debates… This is one of my favorite topics.
The person begging has little to do with my decision to help. I give homeless people, likely addicts, the mentally ill, etc etc because it’s about who I want to be. I give it because I have it to give, and when I don’t, I don’t. I give because I’m really grateful, most days, for what I have. I give because there, but for the grace of “God” (or whatever) there go I. I don’t care what they do with the money… Once I’ve given it, it’s not mine anymore. I give because that’s who I want to be.
How does panhandling “decrease everyone’s quality of life”? I have not had my quality of life negatively affected by a panhandler, ever. It’s really a non-issue. Unless they come knocking on my door, interrupting my all important slumber, I really don’t feel much effect on my life at all. I wouldn’t want to be a panhandler. Looks like hard work to me. I don’t care if the panhandler lives under a bridge or drives his/her porsche from a huge home in New Haven to NYC and back. It’s an honest day’s work… A sales job of sorts! Lot of rejection, every now and then you close a deal. Some days probably better than others. Kind of like my sales career.
If you admit to giving money to people who you obviously think are mentally ill or some addict, then you obviously know what an addict will do with that money. He will buy a fix with it. I’m not sure how you can say that is preventing stealing and is a benefit to the community. What state of mind do you suppose they will be in after their fix?
For the worst of the mentally ill, and hard core addict, I think most communities have institutions and places for them. For quite a few of the other panhandlers it seems to be just a racket to them.
That is your right, but I think you are only enabling them, and doing them and your community more harm than good.
Here is how one reporter in the Seattle area went about trying to figure what kind of person panhandles, and wanted to know where the money goes.
Panhandlers, and transients in general, make many people feel unsafe in public areas such as parks, libraries, and mass transit. This causes less support for spending on these sorts of things. Also, as fewer well-behaved people make use of “the commons” the more obvious the jerkoffs become. This causes even fewer people to make use of “the commons”. Eventually you have inner cities that look like a bomb hit them. They stop becoming a source of tax revenues that could help solve the actual problems facing poor people.
In Portland the area around our public library is like Woodstock for the homeless. What should be one of our great treasures, and a resource for people of all incomes, is essentially a drop-in center for drunks, crazies, and transients.
It’s like having a beautiful mural and then some jerkoff comes around and decides to scrawl on it. A small number of people can destroy the livability of a city. Ironically, the people hurt the worst are the poor who can’t afford private schools, gated communities, or memberships in health clubs.
I know people like MSWAS want to “stick it to the man” by encouraging anti-social behavior, but “the man” doesn’t give a shit. He’s living in the suburbs and sending his kids to private schools. It’s the working class people riding the bus that have to put up with vomit stained floors.
The west coast tends to be hit a bit harder by the homeless than the east coast and midwest. My brother (a police officer) was shocked at how quiet the homeless were and that their population was so small in Chicago compared to SF. Living year round on the west coast is much easier than the upper midwest or east coast, creating a bit of a disparity in the populations in addition to a bit more liberal populace.
Visit Berkley, I have friends from NY who were put off by the homeless in that town.
There is something inherently wrong with just the title of that article… If I give something to you, it’s no longer mine so panhandlers aren’t spending “my” money. They are spending their money and it’s really not for me to judge what they do with it. I give freely, unconditionally, again, because it’s about who I want to be, not about what I think they should or shouldn’t be.
razncain
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OK, so panhandlers and transients are now responsible for how I feel? Personally, I’m more afraid of the person in the park who will just take my money via robbing me or snatching my purse than I am of the person who asks me for some change but the crux of your position is that other people are responsible for how I feel. What if Black people make me feel unsafe, should they stay out of the park? What if I’m afraid of dogs, leash or not? Should they be outlawed in parks? Fat people make me very nervous… I don’t think they should be able to occupy the same public places I want to.
I’m responsible for my own feelings and my own safety. I can avoid places where I know transients are likely to hang out (as well as places addicts gather and muggings are common place). I can carry inexpensive methods of self defense (handy dandy purse sized mace or pepper spray or even a small taser if I’m so inclined). Your argument is faulty on so many levels.
When I give money to a charity it is generally because I believe in their cause and want to assist in that cause. Do I really care how they use the funds? Not particularly. Again, it’s not my money once I’ve given it. While I feel I have a stake and am interested in what the state or the city or the govt. does with taxpayer dollars you will never hear me screaming about what they are doing with “my” money. It’s not mine anymore.
Would you give money to a charity if you didn’t believe in their cause? Would you give money to a charity you thought might be misappropriating funds? Would you vote for a candidate who was going to use your taxpayer dollars to outlaw something you believed in?
No, I would not give to a charity who’s cause I didn’t support. You will never see me give a dime to the religous right or the republican party. It isn’t about the money however, it’s about the support. I wouldn’t volunteer my time either. Certainly I vote for the candidate who most closely represents what is important to me.
I don’t really care about the “cause” of the guy I give a dollar to on the corner. For me that’s about a fellow human being in need and being fortunate enough, and grateful for that good fortune, that compels me to express my gratitude by helping someone out who has asked me. I don’t care about his beliefs or his political leanings, his isms, whether he drives home every night to the burbs with his panhandled booty or spends every penny he gets on booze or drugs. THAT is on him. I’m not attempting to control other people’s choices or behaviors. Once again, it’s not about them or him or her, it’s about ME. What kind of person do I want to be? How do I want to show my gratitude, and I believe gratitude is a verb, for how fortunate I am? I’m not wealthy… Far from it, but I have a home, food, a car, a job and I’m grateful for all of it. If you need a dollar and I have it, I will give it to you freely and without conditions. If you are a charity that works toward what I believe to be a positive change in the world or the country or my neighborhood, and I have it to give, I will give it and what you do with it, you have to live with that.
I don’t feel that way. The money is charity. If the guy says “gimmie some money for beer” (and admitedly some do), that is one thing. If they say “gimmie some money because I’m destitute and homeless, and I need a meal”, and it isn’t true - they just want money for beer - that’s another. In the latter case, I’d have a legitimate concern - after all, that money could have gone to someone who really needed it.
People are responsible for how they act. If they are acting in such a way as to appear menacing to others on an objective standard, then yes, they are responsible for “how I feel”.
Black people are not objectively menacing, merely by virtue of being Black. They are thus not responsible for those who have fear of Black people - such fear is an irrational prejudice. Why should I “avoid places where transients hang out” or “where addicts gather and muggings are common place”, rather than feel that they should behave in a manner that is not menacing to others? Don’t they have any responsibilities?
In hyannis, MA (not far from Sen. Ted Kennedy’s digs), the Salvation Army put up a soup kitchen. the results? local businesses were overwhelmed with homeless people using their bathrooms. local bars got increased busines (the bums would have lunch and panhandle a bit, then repair to the bars and get smashed).
but in general the effects were bad-shoppers on main street dropped away, because they were afraid of the homeless. The cops had to patrol m at school closing time-to keep the bums away from the kids. Eventually, the bums started sleeping in doorways and park benches.
So, i would say, if you give to panhandlers, you are creating a big problem-for the people who live in the neighborhood.
Unlike Ensign Edison’s coterie of friends, I wouldn’t begrudge you the right to do whatever you want, within the confines of the law, with your money. I don’t personally make a habit of it, for a number of reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread. I believe that my dollar would have a statistically higher chance of going to someone who “needs” it if I were to drop it unattended on the ground somewhere than if I handed it to a professional streetcorner mendicant.