# Shouldn't scientists be valued more than politicians actors and sportsmen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 26, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121 "2003-07-26T18:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/21 "2003-07-27T22:51:18Z")
Yes. -Smeghead, scientist ---
**Author:** ![kflanaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/74df32/32.png) [@kflanaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kflanaga)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/22 "2003-07-27T23:13:38Z")
“Economically, it’s capitalism at its most naked. Figure out a way to get people to shell out large amounts of money to watch scientists work, and your problem’s solved.” I wish I got paid as a post doc according to capitalism, but alas, for some reason, early career scientists have to work in a communist system where salaries are set by grants. Nomatter how good I am at my job, I will get paid the same as the post doc next door. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/23 "2003-07-28T03:07:55Z")
Napoleon taught at a military academy when he took advantage of the Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Train\_Song](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/24 "2003-07-28T03:18:35Z")
Carl Sagan was a popularizer of science but was pretty hated among his peers. So I guess there’s a certain amount of crap you need to endure if you want to be a scientist that appeals to everyday people. That’s where science writers could be doing a better job in my opinion. Almost every science book I have, has the word GOD in its title (aside from Carl Sagans books) ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/25 "2003-07-28T15:51:35Z")
So, **hari** , you wish that scientists would become more famous than big-name actors and athletes. Without publicists. Without having our face on movie posters or commercials. When there are many, many more scientists than actors? It ain’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/26 "2003-07-28T19:03:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by El\_Kabong \* > \*\* > Economically, it’s capitalism at its most naked. Figure out a way to get people to shell out large amounts of money to watch scientists work, and your problem’s solved. > \*\* How about a new reality TV show. Put 12 scientists in a lab and at the end of each episode, the one who has made the least important discovery is kicked off. The winner gets a new set of pipetmen. Great fun for all! ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/27 "2003-07-28T19:26:57Z")
Not that I would regard Bill Gates as a scientist, but this always struck me as funny. And it kinda fits in here… > [@](#): > > Michael Jordan will make over $300,000/game: $10,000 a minute, assuming he averages about 30 minutes per game. > Assuming $40 million in endorsements next year,he’ll be making $178,100 a day (working or not)! > > Assuming he sleeps 7 hrs a night, he makes $52,000 every night. > > If he goes to a movie, he’ll pay $7.00, but he’ll make $18,550. > > He’ll make $3,710 while watching each episode of Friends. > > If he wanted to save up for a new Acura NSX ($90,000), it would take him a whole 12 hours. > > If you were given a tenth of a penny for every dollar he made, you’d be living comfortably at $65,000 a year. > > Next year, he’ll make more than 2X as much as past presidents for all of their terms combined. > > Amazing isn’t it? > > … > > BUT: > > JORDAN WILL HAVE TO SAVE 100% OF HIS INCOME FOR 270 YEARS TO HAVE A NET WORTH EQUIVALENT TO THAT OF BILL GATES. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/28 "2003-07-28T22:51:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*How many sports heroes of the late 1600s or early 1700s can you name off the top of your head? > > How many scientists? \*\* And in a related way it’s only fair to point out that _most_ actors earn very little money, if any at all, and have to hold day jobs, and _most_ professional athletes – that is, minor leaguers–don’t earn much. I’d be surprised if they earn as much as your average Ph.D. associate professor. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/29 "2003-07-28T23:33:21Z")
While we’re making a list, I also think scientifically-gifted teenagers should be incredibly desirable to the opposite sex. ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/30 "2003-07-29T00:39:22Z")
I don’t think many scientists would want to be valued in the same sense as professional athletes and actors. Many scientists are scientists because of the work that they love to do. Sure, almost all of them would like more money and recognition (who wouldn’t?). But having attention drawn to oneself all the time (like popular actors or sports figures) would detract from the work that they do. Maybe that’s why popular scientists like Sagan, et al aren’t/weren’t really respected that much. Note - think of Enistein. Most of his important work came before he was well known by most people. However, he was recognized/valued immensely by the scientific community - well before the general public. Had Einstein been a “popular” scientist, he may not have contributed much. To sum - I think scientists want to be valued highly by the general public, but not in the same sense as actors, sports figures, musicians, etc. are. If they did, they wouldn’t be able to do the “real” work of science. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/31 "2003-07-31T17:37:00Z")
I agree with **Spectre of Pithecanthropus** on the money issue. Look at the median (not the average) income of all scientists & all engineers versus that of all actors & all sports entertainers, and I think the picture would change. And if you add musicians’ salaries to those of actors & sports figures, I’d say the scientists & engineers win with a ‘slam dunk.’ (Of course, I have no cites for this. However, except for pre-1993 USSR, I’ve rarely heard of scientists who were waiting tables while trying to score their next big grant.) I’ve known many mediocre engineers who pull in $80K salaries, and I’ve seen bands with very talented musicians divvy up $50 for a night’s performance in a coffee house. However, if you add in the fame component, it looks better for the actors & sports figures. And let’s be frank: it’s not really about “Fame and Fortune,” it’s about, “Who’s getting the chicks?” Been an engineer almost 20 years; never had a groupie. In Sum **Science:** higher expectation value of salary; negligible or negative effect on whoopy **Performing Arts:** lower median salary (but much higher variance); more chances to score (Still wondering if I made the right career choice…) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/32 "2003-07-31T18:21:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > \*\*Yes. > > -Smeghead, scientist \*\* This man speaks the truth. Tars Tarkas, scientist ---
**Author:** ![Shaolinrabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Shaolinrabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shaolinrabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/33 "2003-07-31T22:53:40Z")
I think what we have here is a confusion of the word value. Average scientists probably make more money than average athletes and actors do in their field, as the average actor or athlete makes next to nothing. Those guys you see playing basketball at the park every day are the average athletes, Michael Jordan and Kareem Abdul Jabbar are/ were absolutely exceptional superhuman athletes. Even among professional major/ minor players and college players, the average salary of all groups would be fairly low. The actors we know from Hollywood are the most exceptionally recognized actors on the planet, and certainly some of the finest in existance. Technical preferences aside, being popular and likeable is a skill that requires a great deal of sacrifice and effort. I still can’t manage it in my office, let alone on a regional basis. Most actors on average, are broke. I can say that as someone who has been both a professional actor and a competitive athlete, and is now working on his Bachelors in IT. Tells you a lot about where the money is, eh? About value, we can ask who really _values_ actors and athletes. I don’t, and I’m a fan of many sports and a regular(Some might say excessive) movie watcher. The next time you’re watching a football game on a big screen TV, you can watch with excitement as the game progresses, but when the TV’s owner opens the second window in his screen to check the weather while the game is still playing, and someone asks, “What will they think of next?”, remember who that \*they[i/] is. If the world were Wisconsin, scientists would be the Packers. We may not know who is on the team, but every year we’ll watch and wait, confident that _they_ will bring us something bigger, better, and more spectacular than they did before. No one ever wonders what Tom Cruise will think of next, and if there were a magazine article about it, I certainly wouldn’t pick one up. 🙂 Copaesthetic, Philosopher ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121/34 "2003-07-31T23:06:04Z")
Scientists do get tons of recognition. Name me the most prominent politician, actor and sportsman from the days of Galileo or Newton. The scientists’ names are foremost in most people’s minds now, and they were widely celebrated in their day as well. Who was running Germany when Einstein formulated Special Relativity? Who was its greatest athlete or actor? More people in 1905 could have told you their names than Einstein’s, but now who but a true fanatic has them on the tip of their tongue? The really great scientists get lots of recognition. These days there are too many to keep track of, and it’s been a long time since anyone’s work resulted in such a fundamental change in how we see the world that awareness of them was forced upon us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-scientists-be-valued-more-than-politicians-actors-and-sportsmen/191121.md?page=1)