# Shouldn't this guy be out? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 26, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447 "2010-04-26T20:15:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/1 "2010-04-26T20:15:23Z")
Maybe you’ve seen the video of the guy diving over the fielder in an attempt to score a run - which he was permitted to do. ([Wimp.com - Amazing Videos, Funny Clips. Watch amazing videos and funny clips. Updated daily.](http://www.wimp.com/lovebaseball/)) When I was a kid, I read a book on baseball that detailed a similar event. In that case, I believe the player was Lawrence Unglaub and he did a flip over a third baseman who was holding the ball and attempting to tag him out. He flipped over the defender and landed on the bag. However, the umpire ruled him out because he had left the basepath to avoid a tag, a violation of the rules. Has that rule been amended? Reinterpreted? Or, is this just a case of an umpire seeing it differently - that the man was still “in” the basepath, just on a higher plane? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/2 "2010-04-26T20:53:52Z")
I believe the rule gives the runner four feet from the basepath. It looked to me like some part of the runner was always within four vertical feet of the path. It seemed like the runner’s hands were below four feet high before his feet were higher than that. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/3 "2010-04-26T20:56:19Z")
Moving to The Game Room from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Medlo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hi\_Medlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Medlo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/4 "2010-04-26T21:03:20Z")
Not a baseball rules specialist by any means, but when you’re running, most of the time you’re above the basepath since both feet are off the ground. Unless leaping over the tagger is specifically prohibited it seems to me he’s safe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/5 "2010-04-26T21:06:11Z")
I believe that the play is illegal on the high school level, but legal at the college level. Go Rams!!! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/6 "2010-04-26T21:07:01Z")
The rule is three feet, not four. > [@MLB Rule 7.08](#): > > 7.08 > Any runner is out when – > (a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely; In my interpretation, he never left the baseline. I suppose you can make an argument that by jumping over the catcher, he vertically exceeded a distance of 3 feet from the baseline, but I don’t interpret this rule as covering that. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/7 "2010-04-26T21:09:13Z")
I’d say it’s really bad for the sport, though. All you have to do is start training all runners to jump over their taggers, and there will be no way to get them out. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/8 "2010-04-26T21:10:33Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > I believe that the play is illegal on the high school level, but legal at the college level. > Go Rams!!! Yes, jumping or hurdling fielders is explicitly prohibited in high school baseball, unless the fielder is prone. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/9 "2010-04-26T21:14:13Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’d say it’s really bad for the sport, though. All you have to do is start training all runners to jump over their taggers, and there will be no way to get them out. No way to get them out? Unless you have superhuman jumping abilities, the fielder is probably going to win that confrontation at least 9 out of 10 times. This catcher was caught completely off-guard and still almost managed to place a tag on the runner, anyway. Start training everyone to do this and fielders will be prepared for it. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/10 "2010-04-26T22:04:57Z")
Yeah, it’s called, “reaching up.” Standing at the same time helps, too. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/11 "2010-04-27T00:19:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Shouldn’t this guy be out? > > Maybe you’ve seen the video of the guy diving over the fielder … Hey, you can’t always tell just by how someone dives. He might just be graceful, you never know! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/12 "2010-04-27T13:14:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’d say it’s really bad for the sport, though. All you have to do is start training all runners to jump over their taggers, and there will be no way to get them out. 1. Training people to jump 6+ feet vertical has proven to be a very difficult task (see: Olympics). 2. Training catchers (and basemen) to stand near the plate they’re guarding is trivially easy to do. I don’t care how high you can jump - you still have to land and get on the base. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/13 "2010-04-27T13:33:01Z")
Runner divers over, baseman stands up, makes the tag and the contact causes the runner to land heavily on head/shoulders. Runner out and out cold, or worse. Finds himself on endless baseball blooper videos. Resolves never to try that sort of shit again. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/14 "2010-04-27T13:38:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > In my interpretation, he never left the baseline. I suppose you can make an argument that by jumping over the catcher, he vertically exceeded a distance of 3 feet from the baseline, but I don’t interpret this rule as covering that. I’m not sure if it’s relevant here, but the baseline is established by the runner, not the lines on the ground. I suppose the baseline could be considered his center of mass, and I don’t think he even was 3 feet above that. But I agree that I think the baseline is pretty much the line on the ground under the runner, not caring about how far above that line the runner flies. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/15 "2010-04-27T14:01:48Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s relevant here, but the baseline is established by the runner, not the lines on the ground. This is an important distinction to note, since of course baserunners are quite often way more than three feet out of the direct line between two bases, just by virtue of rounding the bases. The purpose of the rule is simply to prevent runners for running in a big circle around the fielder and making a travesty of the game. Dodging a tag at the moment of contact is very much allowed, so I don’t see how jumping over a fielder’s any different in principle from a hook or hand slide. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/16 "2010-04-27T14:36:32Z")
Originally Posted by MLB Rule 7.08 7.08 Any runner is out when – (a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely; The chalk line, itself, is not the runner’s baseline. The runner’s baseline, as cited above, is the straight line from the runner - at the point where the fielder is trying to tag him - and the base he is attempting to reach. In my view, the runner in the video did move three feet away from “his baseline” at that moment, by lifting himself up three feet from the point he was at when the fielder attempted to tag him. For me, the question hinges on the meaning of the word “runs.” If the rule instead used the word “moves,” there would be less of an issue, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/17 "2010-04-27T14:52:47Z")
Can an MLB rulebook be applied to an NCAA game? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/18 "2010-04-27T15:07:34Z")
But doesn’t a slide take a 6 foot baserunner more than 3 feet from his basepath in that interpretation? Since sliding is accepted, and it changes the baserunners “height”, I don’t see how jumping is significantly different. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/19 "2010-04-27T15:13:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But doesn’t a slide take a 6 foot baserunner more than 3 feet from his basepath in that interpretation? No - why would it? Unless he’s taking a 90 degree turn towards the dugout to make that slide, there isn’t any possible way you could say that he’s going outside his basepath as described above. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447/20 "2010-05-10T16:51:16Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s relevant here, but the baseline is established by the runner, not the lines on the ground. I suppose the baseline could be considered his center of mass, and I don’t think he even was 3 feet above that. But I agree that I think the baseline is pretty much the line on the ground under the runner, not caring about how far above that line the runner flies. Wrong. A **baseline** is a direct line between bases. A \*\*base path \*\* is a direct line from the runner to the base he is running to when a play is being made on him. A runner can run anywhere he chooses when no play is being made on him. Only when a playing is being made on him he cannot deviate more than three feet in either direction. In umpire school they teach that three feet mentally calculated by the umpire as the distance from center of chest of a fielder to the tip of his outstretched arm holding a glove. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-this-guy-be-out/537447.md?page=2)