# Shouldn't vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828 "2020-05-15T03:08:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/1 "2020-05-15T03:08:24Z")
Hi Shouldn’t vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? With countries competing to outdo each other/hacking each other to bring out the first viable Covid-19 vaccine,. why is vaccine info not released more discretely by Western nations. You can bet China is holding back on its advances. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/2 "2020-05-15T03:14:57Z")
If the US develops a vaccine and China steals it, it only harms the company making the vaccine (plain theft). That would not harm national security. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/3 "2020-05-15T03:15:14Z")
Pretty sure that most scientists are working for the embetterment of humanity as a whole, not some bullshit political game. That’s the job of shitty politicians. But ok, sure, let’s keep it a secret…because why? Because you think china is keeping it a secret? How fucking petty is that? You’d let millions die just because they would? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/4 "2020-05-15T03:21:34Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Shouldn’t vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? Why on earth? We **WANT** all potential victims/carriers of an extremely contagious and dangerous disease to get inoculated against it, when/if a vaccine is available, as fast as possible. Sure, companies who might profit from a vaccine want to protect their intellectual property, and cyberspying can interfere with the crucial activities of research institutions, so spying, hacking and stealing are still Bad Things. But in the long run, what people overwhelmingly want is vaccines for everybody, as fast as possible. And researchers want to be able to communicate with other researchers. I don’t think a movement to impose military-style security classifications on vaccine research data would be well received. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/5 "2020-05-15T03:52:23Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > With countries competing to outdo each other/hacking each other to bring out the first viable Covid-19 vaccine,. why is vaccine info not released more discretely by Western nations. Because medicine isn’t a competition and viruses don’t care what citizenship you hold? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/6 "2020-05-15T04:09:43Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > Shouldn’t vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? With countries competing to outdo each other/hacking each other to bring out the first viable Covid-19 vaccine,. why is vaccine info not released more discretely by Western nations. You can bet China is holding back on its advances. How would this benefit the West? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/7 "2020-05-15T04:18:02Z")
Just curious could research on vaccines potentially be used for something bad like an aspect of biological weapons or something, or engineering a bio weapon for which a vaccine could not be made? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/8 "2020-05-15T04:27:27Z")
It’s not a competition to see which country will have the most deaths. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/53a042/32.png) [@cornflakes2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes2)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/9 "2020-05-15T04:45:01Z")
If vaccines are being used for financial gain/personal profit OR for military (warfare) intent, then yes. If vaccines are being used for the betterment of humanity and global humanitarianism, then no. We should be working together. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/10 "2020-05-15T04:50:41Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > Shouldn’t vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? With countries competing to outdo each other/hacking each other to bring out the first viable Covid-19 vaccine,. why is vaccine info not released more discretely by Western nations. You can bet China is holding back on its advances. On the contrary, vaccine science should be disseminated as widely as possible, as the shared information may speed vaccine development elsewhere. It doesn’t matter who crosses the line first, we all win. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/11 "2020-05-15T09:08:54Z")
I think it’s only in anti-vax ravings that I ever hear about vaccines being some huge money-making enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/12 "2020-05-15T11:17:07Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Shouldn’t vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? It should be treated like proprietary IP if it is proprietary. That’s a far cry from TS intelligence. SCIFs, clearances, ugh… ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/13 "2020-05-15T11:23:48Z")
You don’t want to use a contagious pathogen as a weapon unless you can precisely target it and ensure all those you care about are immune. Granted, the same logic can be applied to justify universal health coverage but people can’t be expected to be that rational, empathetic and wise. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/14 "2020-05-15T11:25:17Z")
If there turns out to be maybe two or three viable vaccines out of perhaps 50 vaccine projects, who is going to fund the failed projects? Treatments that are successful and profitable are used to offset the unsuccessful attempts to find treatments - allowing nations to steal the work of others would undermine that and companies are not going to have the resources to fund as many research projects. It is not possible to determine which projects will be viable until long way down the road. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/15 "2020-05-15T11:43:14Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > Shouldn’t vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? With countries competing to outdo each other/hacking each other to bring out the first viable Covid-19 vaccine,. why is vaccine info not released more discretely by Western nations. You can bet China is holding back on its advances. **No.** In fact: _ **HELL NO** _ Vaccine research should be open source (with strong copy-left protections). I’m typing this from a big-pharma computer, so I wont lax linguistic about the industry, but it should not be secret or protected by intellectual property law _at all_. Especially considering how much of the pharmaceutical industry in general is based directly on government funded research. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/16 "2020-05-15T12:14:48Z")
The fastest way for the world to come up with a vaccine is to openly share research between scientists. Which is exactly what is occurring, the entire world over. The political pissing around about who gets initial production or how it will/should be distributed, is just that, POLITICAL PISSING. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/17 "2020-05-15T12:24:49Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > Hi > > Shouldn’t vaccine science be treated like top-secret intelligence? With countries competing to outdo each other/hacking each other to bring out the first viable Covid-19 vaccine,. why is vaccine info not released more discretely by Western nations. You can bet China is holding back on its advances. The worlds intelligence services have been helpless spectators as their countries suffer. Hiding vaccine science will simply ensure that they find something to do. A way they can help. Can you seen how this might not be a great idea? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/18 "2020-05-15T13:28:38Z")
I saw a notice that Chinese actors are trying to steal research relating to a vaccine. I hate to say this… but good! Everyone should be collaborating, voluntarily or not, to end this crisis. > **[Joint\_FBI-CISA\_PSA\_PRC\_Targeting\_of\_COVID-19\_Research\_Organizations\_S508C.pdf.pdf](https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Joint_FBI-CISA_PSA_PRC_Targeting_of_COVID-19_Research_Organizations_S508C.pdf.pdf)** > > 288.96 KB ---
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/19 "2020-05-15T13:34:01Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > **No.** > > In fact: _ **HELL NO** _ > > Vaccine research should be open source (with strong copy-left protections). I’m typing this from a big-pharma computer, so I wont lax linguistic about the industry, but it should not be secret or protected by intellectual property law _at all_. Especially considering how much of the pharmaceutical industry in general is based directly on government funded research. Thank you. I do agree with you. But where do you draw the line on what you in your lab discover that may not be used for benign purposes by bad actors. I’m referring to biowarfare. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828/20 "2020-05-15T13:43:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because medicine isn’t a competition and viruses don’t care what citizenship you hold? Nor does the pathogen check its visa at the border. In infectious epidemic anywhere is potentially a pandemic everywhere. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not a competition to see which country will have the most deaths. This is the view a normal, sane person would hold. However, if you are a self-described “very stable genius”… > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I think it’s only in anti-vax ravings that I ever hear about vaccines being some huge money-making enterprise. Pharmaceutical research is very much a boom or bust enterprise in general, but vaccines (which are generally one or two applications except for seasonal influenza) are not high value products to the point that their development and manufacture oftenhave to be subsidized. The anti-vaxxers know as little about the business side of phrarma research as they do about science. Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-vaccine-science-be-treated-like-top-secret-intelligence/853828.md?page=2)