# Shouldn't we just \*ban\* automation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366 "2019-08-08T19:42:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/81 "2019-08-12T17:25:35Z")
OK I did actually find an [interview](https://www.reddit.com/r/Shitstatistssay/comments/9ubbim/tucker_carlson_wants_to_ban_self_driving_trucks/)where Tucker Carlson does explicitly state is approval for a complete ban on Self driving Trucks. Now I can quit defending him and go back to pure loathing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/82 "2019-08-12T20:32:35Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Look at how bad our civilization has gone because of it!! I mean, in the good old days when men were men and sheep were scared, we built things by hand…with stone tools! Or…well, forget those, they just make things easier. In the REAL good old days, we used our fingernails and teeth. None of this fancy fire stuff. None of those namby pamby stones used to smash things!! > > I hope you were speaking mainly tongue in cheek. I sure was. 😉 There are those who do feel that way, and some who actually live it, to some extent. I actually enjoy eschewing modern stuff for a bit while I go camping, but a large part of that is that when I come home, I can appreciate things I take for granted like running water and flushing toilets. Speaking of which, is a flushing toilet considered to be automation in this thread? Think of all the chambermaid jobs that we lost! > [@Yllaria](#): > > This is reminding me of an SF short story. The robots were androids, rather than automated factory machines. The solution to the problem was to make a law that only individuals could own androids and (I think) that no person could own more than five. Factory owners had to lease the androids from individuals, which created an income stream for individuals. > > I can see a lot of ways that could be gamed, and most automation isn’t in the form of androids. > > OK, now I’ve got visions of androids acting as carriers for sedan chairs. I should stay out of political threads. > > (Automated wheelchairs roaming the city, mapping where ADA ramps are missing.) One proposal I’ve used in futurism is both to reduce the chances of a robot revolution and also as a jobs program is that any mechanical device that interacts with the world must be directed and overseen by a human. To use an old, but probably familiar example, they could have “automated” George Jettson’s job with a drinking bird, but, by being the man in the loop, he was actually preventing the machine from rising against its masters, a productive job that deserves recompense. Also, I don’t think that he was pressing a button to initiate production, but rather, to send a reward signal to the AI after it had completed. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/83 "2019-08-12T20:37:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > There are those who do feel that way, and some who actually live it, to some extent. > > I actually enjoy eschewing modern stuff for a bit while I go camping, but a large part of that is that when I come home, I can appreciate things I take for granted like running water and flushing toilets. > > Speaking of which, is a flushing toilet considered to be automation in this thread? Think of all the chambermaid jobs that we lost! That’s always the rub, isn’t it? I mean, where do you set the technological stopping point? Where do you say ‘we should ban automation’ from this point on? How do you decide? Is steam ok? It wasn’t for many. How about water power? Iron? Bronze? Stone? Where do you draw the line…and how do you justify that choice? The Luddites set arbitrary lines for technology. But where does the OP and folks like the poster I was responding too draw the line…and why? What is the intent? Go back to the 50’s era technology? 1900’s technology? 1800’s? 1700’s? How about go back to Roman era technology? Or further back? Iron age? Bronze age? Copper age? Stone age? Nails and teeth age? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/84 "2019-08-13T08:10:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That was a factor in why I got into the industry I’m in. I’m not saying it cannot ever be automated, but it is going to be a pretty good hold out before someone comes up with a way to make a robot that can groom a dog. [Want to bet](https://www.replacedbyrobot.info/23009/cat-dog-or-other-pet-groomer)? Compare to [my current job](https://www.replacedbyrobot.info/5076/software-applications-developer). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/85 "2019-08-13T17:10:31Z")
I don’t understand the argument. Is the assertion that since prehistoric times through when we invented the lever and the wheel and up until last Tuesday, we have finally hit the exact sweet spot of where technology should stop and go not one inch further? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/86 "2019-08-13T17:19:41Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I don’t understand the argument. Is the assertion that since prehistoric times through when we invented the lever and the wheel and up until last Tuesday, we have finally hit the exact sweet spot of where technology should stop and go not one inch further? The argument is “They’re takin’ our jerbs!” It’s really that simple - people think immigrants are taking their jobs, so they want to ban immigrants. People think robots are taking their jobs, so they want to ban robots. If people could figure out how to articulate wanting to ban people with better skills than them without banning themselves too, that would be the next thing. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/87 "2019-08-13T17:28:18Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > The argument is “They’re takin’ our jerbs!” It’s really that simple - people think immigrants are taking their jobs, so they want to ban immigrants. People think robots are taking their jobs, so they want to ban robots. > > If people could figure out how to articulate wanting to ban people with better skills than them without banning themselves too, that would be the next thing. Economic displacement/replacement is real. And it’s not just limited to immigration/automation. Increased global trade is a big disruptive trend. Now, obviously, banning robots is silly. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/88 "2019-08-13T17:36:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Economic displacement/replacement is real. And it’s not just limited to immigration/automation. Increased global trade is a big disruptive trend. Now, obviously, banning robots is silly. Oh, certainly, I’m well aware of the issues; I’ve lost a job due to foreign outsourcing. (The company subsequently folded; sometimes the cheaper option ain’t the best option.) And it would be dishonest to pretend that automation isn’t going to push people out of jobs - real human people who are quite naturally going to be unhappy about it. Of course history has shown pretty much without fail that automation benefits the greater society, so the unaffected are generally pretty cheerful about throwing the displaced under the bus, dismissing their concerns by saying that they should just get a quickie college degree and learn an entirely new trade. No problem! Myself, I’m pretty okay with the idea of having a UBI to make landing under the bus a little more comfortable; I think that society as a whole has become prosperous enough that we literally can afford to make everyone reasonably comfortable, even the unemployed. This would require a little rearrangement of wealth of course; that would explicitly be the point! But it could be done, and probably should be done, for bread-and-circuses reasons if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/89 "2019-08-13T18:30:38Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Economic displacement/replacement is real. And it’s not just limited to immigration/automation. Increased global trade is a big disruptive trend. Now, obviously, banning robots is silly. It’s not just real, and it’s not limited to the things you’ve listed. Economic displacement/replacement is a fundamental part of Capitalism. It’s a never ending process where every job in every market is evaluated, and every business serving every market is evaluated. We are all put into that crucible of competition and market forces determine our fitness for continuing to do what we do. It can take decades for changes to take hold, for markets to wax and wane, for jobs to be rethought, reimagined, automated or outsourced, but they will be. They MUST be. You can no more ban automation than you can ban being smart. Now, you CAN react to automation, and create a system to help those who are inevitably going to be displaced/replaced. Such a system might not mesh well with the anti-socialist / bootstrappy policies of Republicans, though. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366/90 "2019-08-13T19:05:10Z")
I’m reminded of a Douglas Adams quote. > [@](#): > > Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-ban-automation/838366.md?page=4)