# Shouldn't we just murder the "death-panel" idiots? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157 "2009-08-12T11:20:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/21 "2009-08-12T14:58:20Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Pardon my ignorance, but… Don’t worry, you’re not ignorant, and it’s not yours that needs pardoning anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/22 "2009-08-12T15:01:07Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > How is that any different than how private health insurance companies operate right now? Do you think no one’s ever been denied necessary care by the local health insurance company flunky? Is there an “appeal” process with private insurance? Will it be tougher to “appeal” a decision by a government flunky? I really have no idea. Is it wrong to assume that getting changes pushed through in the government system may be tad tougher? On the whole, I think that people are genuinely worried that the government run system be run ( or make things in other health plans) worse and/or more difficult. They know the problems with the current plans & system. They don’t know what the unintended consequences (or what might be hidden in the fine print) of the proposed system. They would rather stick with the devil they know then gamble on one they don’t, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/23 "2009-08-12T15:13:15Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The point of these proposed boards is that they will have the power to control who gets medicine, when, where, and how. That is, you have to go begging to them to see if they’ll graciously decide to fund your treatments. If they decide it’s too expensive, you will more or less have no recourse. > > The concept of them as Death Boards may be exaggerated, but it’s hardly unprecedented. The use of bureaucratic rules to avoid personal responsibility is an old one, and this happens all the time in some other countries. National Health in Britain, for example, sometimes uses these boards and denies people treatments they desperately need. > > In short, the reason it became an issue is because it is an issue elsewhere, has been ignored by the political classes which have exempted themselves and ensured they will have the best care regardless, and because they refuse to answer a straight question. And how would a public _option_ make things worse than they are now? Here is one example I know of: a patient was prescibed Welbutrin (before it was generic) to help quit smoking. Her insurance company denied the claim. The doctor then re-diagnosed her as depressed and it was approved. So there already are burocrats (sp) that are making decisions on care. It is not “between the doctor and patient” as many say. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/24 "2009-08-12T15:23:02Z")
I get that you’re not serious but who are the death panel idiots? Like, what is this a parody OF? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/25 "2009-08-12T15:28:12Z")
The problem is that the right-wing are MUCH better at coming up with simple propaganda slogans than the left-wing or the moderates. “Pro-Life” was brilliant, and it took the abortion-supporters years and years to come up with “Pro-choice” as the opposite. “America: Love it or Leave it” was another. “Cut-and-run” as the only alternative to extending the Iraq War. And so on. The “death panels” is another such brilliant bit, over-simplifying a complex issue in a way that makes non-thinking people flock to their side. Yes, for sure, a medical board under government-health care will have to make life/death decisions. The thing is that such decisions are made TODAY, by insurance companies and hospital financial controllers. The difference is that a government-sponsored decision-making board will base decisions on societal standards, clearly formulated by the medical profession, patient-advocates, and government… while currently, the “death panels” make their decision solely based on bottom line financial results. But, of course, the expression “death panel” hides the complex issues under an easy-to-remember slogan that doesn’t require thought or insight. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/26 "2009-08-12T15:32:52Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The problem is that the right-wing are MUCH better at coming up with simple propaganda slogans than the left-wing or the moderates. “Pro-Life” was brilliant, and it took the abortion-supporters years and years to come up with “Pro-choice” as the opposite. “America: Love it or Leave it” was another. “Cut-and-run” as the only alternative to extending the Iraq War. And so on. See post 16. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/27 "2009-08-12T15:34:53Z")
I guess if they’d used “Death Committee”, Noah Gordon could sue. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/28 "2009-08-12T15:38:38Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > And how would a public _option_ make things worse than they are now? Here is one example I know of: a patient was prescibed Welbutrin (before it was generic) to help quit smoking. Her insurance company denied the claim. The doctor then re-diagnosed her as depressed and it was approved. So there already are burocrats (sp) that are making decisions on care. It is not “between the doctor and patient” as many say. Totally agree with this - that’s exactly what it is - a public _option_. I’ve actually read the entire bill - all 1,018 pages of it – for work. In a previous life, I implemented government healthcare programs. For what it’s worth, portions of the bill are naive. Other portions of it will be hard if not impossible to implement in our current climate. But the public option portion of the bill focuses primarily on ensuring that the people who need it most (the uninsured or underinsured) can afford standard medical care. The bill is not about prohibiting anyone from access to treatment. Its primary goals are further development of a better primary care system (in the hopes people won’t need as much specialized care), minimizing the cost of specialized care by incenting a preference for more standard procedures before less-proven, more exotic ones. And as to the idea of euthanizing seniors – the idea that the bill or even the spirit of the bill remotely promotes such an idea is even stupider than the idea of death panels. The end-of-life care focuses on the creation of end-of-life directives like medical powers of attorney and continued dialogue with caregivers and providers, to make sure they get the treatment they want when they are physically unable to request it themselves. **Both** sides need to compormise to make the bill workable. But that’s the point of the bill, right? _To have a framework from which to begin a discussion_. It’s very rare that the bill goes through Congress unchanged. It’s like the first draft of any copy - you do it to create something for people to edit and reconstruct if necessary. If both sides would shut the fuck up and stop arguing about what’s out there - because it would never make it through unchanged anyway - and propose reasonable changes to it, the healthcare system in this country would be going in a much better direction. I think both sides can agree that the healthcare system as it is today is not working or is working only for some and cannot continue the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/29 "2009-08-12T15:45:27Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > No, he isn’t trolling. He is making a mockery of an absurdity, which is only the latest absurdity to come out of the Bachman-Palin Overdrive machine. Well crafted, sir. ::golf clap:: ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/30 "2009-08-12T16:43:53Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The problem is that the right-wing are MUCH better at coming up with simple propaganda slogans than the left-wing or the moderates. “Bush lied, people died.” Simple. Catchy. Propaganda. See, y’all aren’t as bad at it as you think. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/31 "2009-08-12T17:24:37Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet!” 😛 Oh, my God! That’s one of the finest, most clever post responses I’ve ever seen! 😃 And I’ve seen aplenty… @ Chefguy Thanks! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/32 "2009-08-12T17:29:22Z")
> [@Freudian Slit to the OP](#): > > I get that you’re not serious but who are the death panel idiots? Like, what is this a parody OF? It’s a parody of a noxious notion from the far right wing, that Obama wants old people to be euthanized. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/33 "2009-08-12T17:39:20Z")
So we are going to murder some folks? Obviously not everyone, just some chosen idiots. How to decide who and who not? Gonna need a commitee for sure. Wait, isnt that also a “panel”? One that decides who dies and who doesnt? Oh crap, they were right! ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/34 "2009-08-12T17:43:07Z")
I actually like the term “death panel” a lot. I always picture a group of super villains sitting at a long table, contemplating the fate of the hapless fool before them. And I like picturing that. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/35 "2009-08-12T18:40:57Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I always picture a group of super villains sitting at a long table, contemplating the fate of the hapless fool before them. And I like picturing that. Absolutely. It’s rather scary, once you connect all the dots, such as how Obama’s announcement of his health care plan triggered that swarm of earthquakes off the Baja California coast last month. And that terrible tragedy over the Hudson River last week – clearly, those socialist Italian tourists knew too much, and the government had them erased. Uh-oh, I sense they’re on to me as well. I’d better erase this post…hope that computer chip implanted in my brain by the NSA doesn’t cause me to hit the wrong button… ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/36 "2009-08-12T18:43:03Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I actually like the term “death panel” a lot. I always picture a group of super villains sitting at a long table, contemplating the fate of the hapless fool before them. I actually picture them finishing my father’s basement. > [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > “Bush lied, people died.” Simple. Catchy. Propaganda. See, y’all aren’t as bad at it as you think. Yes, but the rhyme scheme is too simple, while the syntax is too complex (that comma should be a semicolon). Also, while “Bush lied” has a wonderful specificity, “people died” is just too vague to stoke any outrage. But you are right that it is an attempt to match the low-info rhetoric used by their counterparts on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/37 "2009-08-12T18:47:57Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](#): > > “Bush lied, people died.” Simple. Catchy. Propaganda. See, y’all aren’t as bad at it as you think. Well, that’s an accurate statement. Is it propaganda if it’s the simple truth? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/38 "2009-08-12T18:49:04Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > :eek: > > Ok. Better now. Just to be clear, you aren’t suggesting that people \*actually \*go out and kill folks, which would violate U.S. law. It was pretty clear to me that you weren’t seriously advocating illegal activity, but I’ve had a couple of thread reports . . . If you really \*were \*suggesting illegal activity, well, knock it off. > > **Gfactor** > Pit Moderator G, could you please send the names (and social security numbers and addresses, if you have them) of all those who reported the OP as serious or as trolling, because I have a Christmas card list I’m trying to fill out, and I think these folks could use some holiday cheer when that season rolls around. Thanks so much–and if you considered it a serious proposal yourself, even for a second, please do feel free to put your own contact info on it. Kthxby and early merry xmas, Oh, and Regards, PRR ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/39 "2009-08-12T18:51:09Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Yes, but the rhyme scheme is too simple, while the syntax is too complex (that comma should be a semicolon). Bloody Grammar Nazi. Now _those_ are the people who should be lined up and shot. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157/40 "2009-08-12T18:55:14Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > G, could you please send the names (and social security numbers and addresses, if you have them) of all those who reported the OP as serious or as trolling, because I have a Christmas card list I’m trying to fill out, and I think these folks could use some holiday cheer when that season rolls around. Thanks so much–and if you considered it a serious proposal yourself, even for a second, please do feel free to put your own contact info on it. Kthxby and early merry xmas, > > Oh, and > > Regards, > PRR See, the reason you’re near-universally regarded as a dick is that you don’t know when to shrug things off. If your weak sneering sarcasm gets challenged, your inevitable response is to pile on _more_ weak sneering sarcasm. Overtelling a joke can’t make it funny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouldnt-we-just-murder-the-death-panel-idiots/506157.md?page=3)