# Shoulld the UK Exit the European Union? Should English-Speaking Countries Unite? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 25, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070 "2016-02-25T04:32:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/21 "2016-02-25T18:56:47Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I sincerely doubt India would want anything to do with an Anglosphere bloc. The legacy of colonialism is too strong, and personally I don’t want them in anyway. Hell, I’m not even sure why I as a Canadian would want deeper ties with the UK. It’s irritating now, but I see no value in any further union than the symbolic one we already have. It’s a nice place to visit and all, but it’s a foreign country a long way away and we have enough on our hands keeping this country together. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/22 "2016-02-25T19:46:29Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Among the areas of criticism levelled at the EU by the pro-brexit camp the alleged lack of democracy keeps puzzling me. As far as I can tell anyone, who has anything to say within the EU’s institutions has either been directly elected by the people or has been appointed by the democratically elected governments of the member states. You might argue that the latter is a fairly indirect approach and that the EU would be more democratic, if it had a government directly elected by the people - but as far as I understand the brexit camp that is exactly what they do \*not \*want. So what would have to be changed within the EU for it to be more democratic? In theory sure. In practice (in the UK) MEP elections are barely an after-thought for most people and often result in protest parties like UKIP and extremists like the Front National or the communists. Most people in the UK couldn’t even name their MEP. Not the fault of the system per-se but still a reality. Being an MEP is seen as a cushy number with lavish expenses and no accountability, because how can you be held accountable when people don’t know who you are or what the hell you are doing? Basically the population struggles with the level of democracy we have at a national level and adding more on top is not working. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/23 "2016-02-25T19:52:22Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > In theory sure. In practice (in the UK) MEP elections are barely an after-thought for most people and often result in protest parties like UKIP and extremists like the Front National or the communists. Most people in the UK couldn’t even name their MEP. Not the fault of the system per-se but still a reality. > > Being an MEP is seen as a cushy number with lavish expenses and no accountability, because how can you be held accountable when people don’t know who you are or what the hell you are doing? > > Basically the population struggles with the level of democracy we have at a national level and adding more on top is not working. Surely the eurosceptics should then be calling for _less_ democracy - abolish the Parliament and have the Council the sole lawmaking power. But no, somehow they think they can square the circle and it’s the EU that’s unreasonable, not them. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/24 "2016-02-25T20:02:13Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > In theory sure. In practice (in the UK) MEP elections are barely an after-thought for most people and often result in protest parties like UKIP and extremists like the Front National or the communists. Most people in the UK couldn’t even name their MEP. Not the fault of the system per-se but still a reality. > > Being an MEP is seen as a cushy number with lavish expenses and no accountability, because how can you be held accountable when people don’t know who you are or what the hell you are doing? > > Basically the population struggles with the level of democracy we have at a national level and adding more on top is not working. You are quite accurately describing the troubles that parliamentary democracy is facing in many countries. Authoritarian regimes like to point to these troubles to illustrate how much better their own approach is. However, in your earlier post it seemed as if you considered the EU not sufficiently democratic. Now it almost looks as if you were saying the EU was adding to the already troublesome level of democracy you have at national level. I am sure I am missing your point here, but I suppose I need your help to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/25 "2016-02-25T20:43:53Z")
Sure the UK should merge with the USA and Canada. Call it Oceania. Only 32 years late. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/26 "2016-02-25T20:46:40Z")
> [@T.M](#): > > Yes England should exit the EU. When the country voted for a Common Market it was not a vote to lose our sovereignty to an unelected Federated States of Europe. The threats of tariffs on the U.K’s exports is a double edged sword as the U.K would replicate with tariffs on imported goods, the majority of cars purchased in the U.K. are manufactured within mainland Europe, a £20,000 car with a 20% tariff would be a substantial price hike making cars manufactured within the U.K. an attractive purchase and increased sales would mean increased employment. This could encourage Ford and Vauxhall to return car manufacture to Dagenham and Luton. If as the article suggests America would bring in tariffs against the U.K. a 20% tariff on the aircraft we import from America would be a hefty hit. Britain is a land of innovation watch us fly when we are released from the shackles of EU red tape, it will be the EU who will crash and burn not Britain. Should I ask for cites, or should we just leap to the inevitable admission that you’ve got nothing but an opinion, won’t accept any sources that disagree with you, and generally are just here to proselytize? Or, to summarise: Cool story, bro. ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/27 "2016-02-25T21:27:55Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > You are quite accurately describing the troubles that parliamentary democracy is facing in many countries. Authoritarian regimes like to point to these troubles to illustrate how much better their own approach is. However, in your earlier post it seemed as if you considered the EU not sufficiently democratic. Now it almost looks as if you were saying the EU was adding to the already troublesome level of democracy you have at national level. I am sure I am missing your point here, but I suppose I need your help to see it. You’re right I’ve contradicted myself, posting here is partly about getting my thoughts straight for myself :). I guess what I’m getting at is that you have theoretically democratic body that is not in fact representative or accountable setting regulations and law that override the laws made by national parliaments that are, generally, much better functioning democratic bodies. And this will only ever increase in the name of unification and the laws of bureaucracy. I don’t think the EU is the worst thing ever and I can even see why it suits many countries on continental Europe. I do however think it expanded and developed too fast and the current state is not right for the UK. ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/28 "2016-02-25T21:35:04Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > In theory sure. In practice (in the UK) MEP elections are barely an after-thought for most people and often result in protest parties like UKIP and extremists like the Front National or the communists. Most people in the UK couldn’t even name their MEP. Not the fault of the system per-se but still a reality. > > Being an MEP is seen as a cushy number with lavish expenses and no accountability, because how can you be held accountable when people don’t know who you are or what the hell you are doing? > > Basically the population struggles with the level of democracy we have at a national level and adding more on top is not working. The Nation Front, England First and Charter 18 are protest groups who will usually vote for the British Nationalist Party, they all come under the same heading Racist Scum. My MEP Dian is very active and holds many public meetings with over 200 people attending the last one 2 weeks ago she was accompanied by another MEP Ray Finch the two of them spoke and answered questions for a couple of hours. It is up to the electorate to go to the meetings that are well advertised ---
**Author:** ![T.M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ad7895/32.png) [@T.M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.M)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/29 "2016-02-25T21:43:13Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Should I ask for cites, or should we just leap to the inevitable admission that you’ve got nothing but an opinion, won’t accept any sources that disagree with you, and generally are just here to proselytize? > > Or, to summarise: Cool story, bro. so according to you opinions do not count. As I am actively involved in the out campaign would you like me to quote myself ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/30 "2016-02-25T21:53:34Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > You’re right I’ve contradicted myself, posting here is partly about getting my thoughts straight for myself :). I guess what I’m getting at is that you have theoretically democratic body that is not in fact representative or accountable setting regulations and law that override the laws made by national parliaments that are, generally, much better functioning democratic bodies. And this will only ever increase in the name of unification and the laws of bureaucracy. > > I don’t think the EU is the worst thing ever and I can even see why it suits many countries on continental Europe. I do however think it expanded and developed too fast and the current state is not right for the UK. Thanks for clarifying. I am not sure that the reason why many in the UK (and elsewhere) are opposed to the EU institutions is that they are not representative. For some they might be too representative - which means that given the fact that the EU has a population of about 508 million their own national population only amounts to a relatively small minority. They feel uneasy being part of a body where their own influence only amounts to that of a minority. Isolationism has a big allure, I get that. It makes you the undisputed master of your own show. The price of course is that it is only a fairly small show. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/31 "2016-02-25T22:00:01Z")
We’ve debated the idea of an “Anglosphere” before, and it does make a lot of sense, economically. Not politically, but economically. GB-USA-Cannada-NZ-Oz Ireland, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/32 "2016-02-25T22:18:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’ve debated the idea of an “Anglosphere” before, and it does make a lot of sense, economically. Not politically, but economically. GB-USA-Cannada-NZ-Oz Ireland, maybe. The “Anglosphere” might form a strong market. Then again - one criticizm frequently leveled against the EU by British EU sceptics is how it allegedly is being dominated by Germany, it’s largest economy. The economy of the “Anglosphere” would be dominated by a single economy far more than that of the EU is. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/33 "2016-02-25T22:19:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’ve debated the idea of an “Anglosphere” before, and it does make a lot of sense, economically. Not politically, but economically. GB-USA-Cannada-NZ-Oz Ireland, maybe. We’re already there it’s called five eyes. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/34 "2016-02-25T22:23:51Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > The “Anglosphere” might form a strong market. Then again - one criticizm frequently leveled against the EU by British EU sceptics is how it allegedly is being dominated by Germany, it’s largest economy. The economy of the “Anglosphere” would be dominated by a single economy far more than that of the EU is. We went through all this with Imperial (and later, Commonwealth) Preference. Although the adjustment once Britain turned to Europe may have been thought a bit abrupt, I doubt if the other putative partners in an economic Anglosphere would be remotely interested. It would be a step backward. Why else have successive US administrations made it clear they prefer to see the UK in the EU? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/35 "2016-02-25T22:25:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Under which system, India would have 19.7 representatives in the lower house for every one the UK has. > > What incentive would they have to agree to that? Well California and Wyoming seem to be functioning with a 53 to 1 ratio. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/36 "2016-02-26T00:46:19Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Well California and Wyoming seem to be functioning with a 53 to 1 ratio. Yes. But that rather makes the point. Does England want the relationship to India that Wyoming currently has to California? ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/37 "2016-02-26T11:00:10Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > No, just your apparent delusions and misunderstandings of other countries. I’m leaving for two days on family business. I’ll return to the threads Saturday night or Sunday morning. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/38 "2016-02-26T12:06:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’ve debated the idea of an “Anglosphere” before, and it does make a lot of sense, economically. Not politically, but economically. GB-USA-Cannada-NZ-Oz Ireland, maybe. Can it be inferred that all Arab speaking countries should unite as well? Or is the case of English speaking countries a particular one? ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/39 "2016-02-28T02:11:39Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > Can it be inferred that all Arab speaking countries should unite as well? Or is the case of English speaking countries a particular one? They would have except one problem. They don’t know how to avoid massacres. Including each other. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shoulld-the-uk-exit-the-european-union-should-english-speaking-countries-unite/747070/40 "2016-02-28T03:03:52Z")
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