# Shouting "Fire" in a Crowded Theater: Experimental Results? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 18, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474 "2010-01-18T22:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RichardSRussell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/47e85d/32.png) [@RichardSRussell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RichardSRussell)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/1 "2010-01-18T22:27:22Z")
Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote in a landmark Supreme Court ruling (_Schenck v. United States_, 1919) that “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic.” Many years ago I heard a story that some class of smark-aleck law students (at, IIRC, the University of Chicago) had decided to put this idea to the test. They all went to various theaters and, partway into the movie, shouted “Fire! Fire!”. Since there was in fact no fire in any of the theaters, all that happened was that other patrons hollered at them to sit down and shut up. There was no panic or mass exodus. However, I am unable to confirm that this experiment actually happened anywhere. Is it just an urban legend, or has somebody actually tested Holmes’s hypothetical scenario in real life? ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/2 "2010-01-18T22:34:33Z")
Having nothing to do with theaters and fires, but everything to do with peoples’ reactions to potentially disasterous situations, I was 11 years old when the White Sox won the pennant in 1959. Chicago’s Fire Commissioner (Quinn?) set of the air raid sirens throughout the City. Must have been 11:00 PM or so. One must take into consideration the paranoia that existed at that time w/regard to nuclear war with the USSR. Anyway, when the sirens went off, most everyone in our neighborhood ran outside to the street and looked up. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/3 "2010-01-19T00:52:15Z")
> [@RichardSRussell](#): > > Many years ago I heard a story that some class of smark-aleck law students (at, IIRC, the University of Chicago) had decided to put this idea to the test. They all went to various theaters and, partway into the movie, shouted “Fire! Fire!”. Since there was in fact no fire in any of the theaters, all that happened was that other patrons hollered at them to sit down and shut up. There was no panic or mass exodus. Conditions are significantly different than in 1919 when that was written. Building codes for places like theatres are quite a bit more stringent about number of exits, signs marking them, fireproof stage curtains, fire-resistant seating, etc. Plus most theatres now use electric lights rather than gas – quite a bit safer. (And there is a whole section in the National Electric Code relating to strict wiring codes for theatres.) And modern theatres have sprinkler systems installed, and smoke detectors, and fire alarm warning systems. In 1919, most people were used to reading frequent stories in the papers about fires in such public places, where many people were injured or killed due to unsafe conditions. But now, most of the theatre patrons (largely young people) will have never heard of such a thing happening. So they are much less likely to respond to some idiot yelling “Fire” in the theatre. Even if the fire alarms went off, most of us have seen so many false alarms from them that we tend to look to see if there really is a fire before responding. The ingrained panic response of 1919 audiences sitting in a gas-lit theatre filled with highly-combustable sets, costumes, curtains, etc. is long gone. So it’s quite likely people would not respond the same way now. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/4 "2010-01-19T01:29:46Z")
[It happened for real in 1913.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Hall_disaster) Holmes may have had the Italian Hall Disaster in mind when he wrote his opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/5 "2010-01-19T01:39:41Z")
I’d be amazed if law students actually tried this. If you did spark a panic, that would be a fantastic way to convince the bar you’d make a poor addition to the profession. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/6 "2010-01-19T17:13:45Z")
If there really were a fire in a crowded theatre what is one supposed to do? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/7 "2010-01-19T17:22:01Z")
To add to t-bonham’s reply, let’s also remember that a theater in 1919 would be full of people smoking tobacco in various forms. So the theater was inevitably full of smoke even when there was no fire. In a modern theater that wouldn’t be the case and you’d expect to smell a fire long before it threatened you. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/8 "2010-01-19T18:08:39Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > To add to t-bonham’s reply, let’s also remember that a theater in 1919 would be full of people smoking tobacco in various forms… Also full of people in desperate need of a match or lighter yelling “FIRE?!”. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/9 "2010-01-19T18:27:00Z")
I believe Holmes also said much later that was one of the worst decisions of his career. Basically, it justified sending someone to jail for distributing pamphlets suggesting people should protest the draft during WWI. According to Wikipedia Schenk then spent 6 months in jail, and “committed suicide” once he was let out. So basically this line was used to justify a complete abrogation of the right to disagree with the government. ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/10 "2010-01-20T01:04:56Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The ingrained panic response of 1919 audiences sitting in a gas-lit theatre filled with highly-combustable sets, costumes, curtains, etc. is long gone. So it’s quite likely people would not respond the same way now. These days they generally tell you to DIAF. This can lead to something of a chain reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/11 "2010-01-20T01:12:51Z")
Don’t forget that the decision never made it illegal to falsely shout “fire” even in a crowded theater. It said only that you couldn’t use free speech as a defense if somebody were hurt as a result and came after you for damages. I assume by extension that you could also be cited for disturbing the peace or similar charges and not have free speech to fall back on. That makes the supposed experiment in the OP nonsense. Unless they honestly intended to cause such a panic that people would hurt themselves and sue, what would the point be? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/12 "2010-01-20T01:19:53Z")
In the mid-80s there was a hilarious satirical book called _Cvltvre Made Stvpid_ (now available on [Scribd](http://www.scribd.com/doc/14623519/Cvltvre-Made-Stvpid-Culture-Made-Stupid)). On page 19 is an abstract of a (thankfully fictitious) psychology experiment in which graduate assistants shouted “Fire” in _several_ crowded theaters, tabulating the number of audience casualties and evaluating crowd behavior on a “Wassenberg-Schevitzky Panic Scale.” Brilliant stuff. I promise you will enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/13 "2010-01-20T01:21:39Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > In the mid-80s there was a hilarious satirical book called _Cvltvre Made Stupid_ (now available on [Scribd](http://www.scribd.com/doc/14623519/Cvltvre-Made-Stvpid-Culture-Made-Stupid)). On page 19 is an abstract of a phoney-baloney psychology experiment in which graduate assistants shouted “Fire” in _several_ crowded theaters. > > Brilliant stuff. I promise you will enjoy it. He also wrote Science Made Stupid. Both are wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/14 "2010-01-20T01:21:41Z")
But what happens when you shout “Movie” in a crowded firehouse? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/15 "2010-01-20T01:28:48Z")
They start the movie? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/16 "2010-01-20T01:39:30Z")
The [Bethnal Green Tube Disaster](http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/09/a795909.shtml) of 1943. > [@](#): > > At 8.27pm the touch-paper was lit. A frightening roar went out as a nearby anti-aircraft battery fired its salvo of 60 rockets. The battery was new, with an unfamiliar sound. Apprehension turned to panic. As the crowd surged forward down the slippery steps a woman holding a small child fell near the bottom of the first staircase. A man tripped over her, and a tragic human domino effect had begun. > > It is estimated that hundreds of people fell within just 15 seconds. Unaware of what was happening in front of them, people kept surging forward into the supposed safety of the shelter. 173 people died. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/17 "2010-01-20T02:55:44Z")
[Iroquois Theater Fire 1903](http://books.google.com/books?id=pFU8E9UY8M0C&dq=isbn=0809324903) --597 dead at the scene, 30 more died later. Bodies piled 10-deep at the exits. [Cocoanut Grove Fire 1942](http://www.celebrateboston.com/disasters/cocoanut-grove-fire.htm) – 492 dead. Patrons died jamming revolving doors as they tried to escape. There’s no need to test a hypothtical scenario. It’s happened plenty of times in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/18 "2010-01-20T03:40:49Z")
Again, the case is about falsely calling fire and causing a fake panic. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/19 "2010-01-20T05:21:05Z")
1 month ago, I stuck my head into a bar and yelled “Fire.” The bartender did. I get out of the Stryker frame tomorrow. hh ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474/20 "2010-01-20T07:45:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Again, the case is about falsely calling fire and causing a fake panic. What’s a fake panic? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-experimental-results/525474.md?page=2)