# Shove the Fumbler or Punishment in Olde London **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 3, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shove-the-fumbler-or-punishment-in-olde-london/447833 "2008-05-03T00:38:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shove-the-fumbler-or-punishment-in-olde-london/447833/1 "2008-05-03T00:38:16Z")
You can now read [the proceedings of the London courts from 1674-1913 online.](http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/index.jsp) These are the complete documents which include such things as [punishments:](http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=s16741212-1&div=s16741212-1&terms=cowhands#highlight) > [@](#): > > Besides these nine ordered to receive Capital punishment, there were nine others that got off by the benefit of the Clergy, and carryed away the Law in their own hands. Twelve that prayed and obtained the favour of Transportation, and four sentenced to Shove the Fumbler, or receive the correction of the gentle Lash for several crimes respectively no less tedious, than impertinent here to be recited. Anybody know what “Shove the Fumbler” is? A google search is exactly zero help. There’s also some rather interesting [accounts of prostitution trials.](http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t16930531-44&div=t16930531-44&terms=laying%20hands%20on%20a%20%20cow%20with%20intent#highlight) > [@](#): > > Alice Randall was tried for keeping a disorderly House, and entertaining Evil-disposed Persons therein . The first Evidence Swore, that he went to the House one Evening, and being up Stairs, the Prisoner brought him a brisk young Girl, who presently had the Impudence to pull up her Coats, and laying her hand upon her Belly said, Here’s that that will do you good, a Commodity for you, if you’ll pay for it you shall have enough of it; with that he took his Cane, and gave her two or three good daubs (as he called them); she was found guilty of the Indictment. “took his Cane, and gave her two or three good daubs” know what I mean, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. There’s also supposed to an account of trial involving "laying hands on a cow with intent, but I haven’t been able to find it. ---
**Author:** ![zakkyzee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/46a35a/32.png) [@zakkyzee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zakkyzee)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2026, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shove-the-fumbler-or-punishment-in-olde-london/447833/2 "2026-07-23T13:14:44Z")
The “Proceedings of the London Courts” were the popular publications circulated from 1674-1913, and included witty phrases and popular jargon that wouldn’t appear in the actual court records. “Shove the fumbler” was both a crass description of the sex act, but more importantly in this case, was synonymous with being strapped to the back of a cart and whipped; borne out by the author’s clarification “OR receive the correction of the gentle lash for several crimes respectively no less tedious etc” The ‘gentle’ lash was a humorous jibe also - the lash was anything but gentle, and wasn’t banned in British prisons until 1948! (Publicly banned in 1868). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2026, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shove-the-fumbler-or-punishment-in-olde-london/447833/3 "2026-07-23T13:40:48Z")
> [@zakkyzee](#): > > The ‘gentle’ lash was a humorous jibe also Well, it might be gentle, if those defendants pled down to that from capital punishment. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2026, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shove-the-fumbler-or-punishment-in-olde-london/447833/4 "2026-07-23T14:40:44Z")
I found this is a paper entitled “A Century in the Making: The Glorious Revolution, the American Revolution, and the Origins of the U.S. Constitution’s Eighth Amendment” by John D. Bessler William and Mary Bill of Rights Journal Volume 27 (2018-2019) Issue 4 Article 4 May 2019 > “Shove the Fumbler” is a phrase used to mean to “[b]e whipped at the cart’s tail.” 1 EDWARD BULWER LYTTON, PAUL CLIFFORD 16 n.1 (1893). [https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1905&context=wmborj](https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1905&context=wmborj) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2026, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shove-the-fumbler-or-punishment-in-olde-london/447833/5 "2026-07-23T14:47:35Z")
And in case you need more: > In England, offenders (mostly those convicted of theft) were usually sentenced to be flogged “at a cart’s tail” along a length of public street, usually near the scene of the crime, “until his [or her] back be bloody”. > **[Flagellation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation)** > > Flagellation (Latin flagellum, 'whip'), flogging or whipping is the act of beating the human body with special implements such as whips, rods, switches, the cat o' nine tails, the sjambok, the knout, etc. Typically, flogging has been imposed on an unwilling subject as a punishment; however, it can also be submitted to willingly and even done by oneself in sadomasochistic or religious contexts. The strokes are typically aimed at the unclothed back of a person, though they can be administered to ... > “To be whipped at the cart’s tail” was a harsh public punishment in England and its colonies where an offender was stripped to the waist, tied to the rear of a moving cart, and flogged through the public streets. [[1] ([https://www.mdhistory.org/only-the-instrument-of-the-law-baltimores-whipping-post/](https://www.mdhistory.org/only-the-instrument-of-the-law-baltimores-whipping-post/)), [2](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Flagellation), [3](https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/about/punishment/)] ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2026, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shove-the-fumbler-or-punishment-in-olde-london/447833/6 "2026-07-23T16:17:47Z")
“Here’s that that will do you good, a Commodity for you, if you’ll pay for it you shall have enough of it.” Dang, that brisk young girl sure knew her pillow talk.