# Showdown! Justice League of America vs. the X-Men **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 23, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242 "2004-11-23T06:03:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/221 "2004-11-30T13:48:49Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Martian Manhunter. Not only has he been at the telepath game longer than Charles, he can physically change the anatomy of his brain (in some issue of JLA he reverted to his martian form and told Aztek that his thoughts might sound a little different). _And_ he has near-Superman level super speed. Even if Charles figures out how to work with a Martian mind, he has to figure out how to deal with a constantly changing one, and J’onn isn’t just going to sit there and let him. All he even has to do is keep Professor X occupied for the split second it’ll take him to get off a blast of martian vision. Heh… I’m sorry, I just got a funny flash of this battle. Their psychic beings are doing battle, and J’onn, in the physical world, zaps Chuck with his Martian Vision… Charles : “Agh! I can’t feel my legs!” J’onn : “Oh no! What have I done?” Charles : “Sucker!” _snrk_ > [@](#): > > Wonder Woman. Rogue’s only chance would involve laying her hands on Wonder Woman (who has the speed of Hermes) and keeping them on there long enough so that she was totally drained, which could take a very long while. Without sucking her powers, Rogue can’t really do anything that would hurt WW (she punched Thor with her strongest blow once… it made him blink). This is assuming that WW doesn’t just grab her with her lasso and slam her into the side of a mountain repeatedly. But Wonder Woman _does_ have a lot of exposed flesh to grab. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/222 "2004-11-30T17:58:25Z")
I needed Xavier for round 3, so Xavier won. No one else really worked. I stand by my synopsis. I was writing a comic; if this were a real fight, the X-Men would have been wiped out before the fight started. The JLA is too fast and too strong. Makes a horrible comic, though. I may take a stab at a different X-Men vs. JLA lineup later…call it the X-Scrubs vs the Justice League of Hoboken. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/223 "2004-11-30T21:11:05Z")
> [@](#): > > In that time,Storm created a fog for iceman to freeze (area effect attack to stop the flash cold) Iceman froze it and it failed. That’s what I was asking about. I followed the rest of it, but I don’t see why it failed. You had already stipulated that Flash was staggered for a moment (I assume that’s an everyone-else moment, not a Flash-moment, since he’s staggered), and a freezing fog is an area-affect attack. Did he vibrate out of it? I can’t quite see that, if the ice starts off flush with his skin (leaving him no room for initial movement), but I suppose that’s plausible enough if you want to keep him for the next round, for dramatic purposes. Then again, Iceman/Storm is a cool enough combination (in more way than one) that I would sort of like to see them win their fight. While we’re at it with Storm, I’d like to see some lightning in this fight. I’ll grant that she’d have a hard time zapping Flash, but lightning should at least be able to keep pace with “the speed of Hermes”. And we might as well have a decent variety of matchups for that schmuck with the camcorder ;). And with that segue to Wonder Woman, Rogue wouldn’t need to hold on with her first hit. At every contact, WW is going to be a little bit drained, and Rogue will get a little bit more Wonder-ful, so each subsequent contact is going to be that much easier. Mind you, that’s contact either way, with Rogue hitting Wonder Woman or Wonder Woman hitting Rogue (as long as she touches exposed skin). WW needs to win that battle quickly to have any hope of winning at all. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/224 "2004-12-01T00:08:47Z")
I figured it would take Storm a moment to convey her plan to Iceman and create the fog. I weighed the options and figured Flash would be able to breeze through before he got frosted since he’s faster than Quicksilver by quite a bit. As far as Rogue v. Wonder Woman, I went with the pitched battle first and then the pulling off of the gloves later. To my knowledge, Rogue hasn’t used the bare fisted power draining punch bit very much if at all. Besides, the hands around the face from behind is such an X-Men staple image that I had to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/225 "2004-12-01T02:58:08Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I figured it would take Storm a moment to convey her plan to Iceman and create the fog. I weighed the options and figured Flash would be able to breeze through before he got frosted since he’s faster than Quicksilver by quite a bit. That, and he’s been fighting Weather Wizard and Captain Cold since he was a pre-teen. (Granted, Storm’s more powerful, but brute force isn’t a help here) This team can’t throw anything at him that he hasn’t beaten a hundred times before. Unlike the Wolverine/Batman fight, they’ll be no surprises he. You might as well throw a boomerang at the guy. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/226 "2004-12-01T05:23:56Z")
> [@](#): > > And with that segue to Wonder Woman, Rogue wouldn’t need to hold on with her first hit. At every contact, WW is going to be a little bit drained, and Rogue will get a little bit more Wonder-ful, so each subsequent contact is going to be that much easier. Mind you, that’s contact either way, with Rogue hitting Wonder Woman or Wonder Woman hitting Rogue (as long as she touches exposed skin). WW needs to win that battle quickly to have any hope of winning at all. Of course, since Rogue is almost completely covered, Wonder Woman doesn’t really have to worry about touching exposed skin unless she punches Rogue in the face. Plus, once she notices that she’s losing power when she touches Rogue, she’ll just quit touching her and kick her in the face instead. If Rogue takes off her gloves, Diana can just tie her hands behind her back with her lasso. Granted, as CandidGamera pointed out, Diana doesn’t wear a lot in the way of clothing, so if she decides to grapple with Rogue she could be in trouble. That said, Wonder Woman throws punches that _Superman_ feels. It shouldn’t take more than a few blows to put Rogue down for the count. In terms of physical power, the X-Men just don’t have enough heavy hitters to spread amongst Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter, even if we give them Juggernaut and Mimic. Now, a more fun (and evenly-matched) fight would be the Giffen-era Justice League vs. various X-Men. We still get our J’onn/Prof. matchup, plus stuff like Fire and Ice/Ice Man, Blue Beetle/Nightcrawler, Booster Gold/Rogue, Guy Gardner/Wolverine, Cyclops, and Colossus, Mr. Miracle/Longshot, Captain Atom/Havok, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/227 "2004-12-01T12:28:17Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Of course, since Rogue is almost completely covered, Wonder Woman doesn’t really have to worry about touching exposed skin unless she punches Rogue in the face. Plus, once she notices that she’s losing power when she touches Rogue, she’ll just quit touching her and kick her in the face instead. If Rogue takes off her gloves, Diana can just tie her hands behind her back with her lasso. > > Granted, as CandidGamera pointed out, Diana doesn’t wear a lot in the way of clothing, so if she decides to grapple with Rogue she could be in trouble. That said, Wonder Woman throws punches that _Superman_ feels. It shouldn’t take more than a few blows to put Rogue down for the count. In terms of physical power, the X-Men just don’t have enough heavy hitters to spread amongst Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter, even if we give them Juggernaut and Mimic. But as we’re discussing [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=288479), Rogue is no longer the delicate southern belle that she was. With her new powers, she’s practically deus ex machina in babe form. She now has the ability to call upon the powers of anyone she has ever absorbed. I’d practically put her up with Superman in terms of raw power, and far above in terms of variety. Put in her ability to render someone unconscious with a touch and she’s nearly unstoppable without using psychic powers. Nope, Rogue takes Wonder Woman no contest. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/228 "2004-12-01T12:30:06Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Now, a more fun (and evenly-matched) fight would be the Giffen-era Justice League vs. various X-Men. We still get our J’onn/Prof. matchup, plus stuff like Fire and Ice/Ice Man, Blue Beetle/Nightcrawler, Booster Gold/Rogue, Guy Gardner/Wolverine, Cyclops, and Colossus, Mr. Miracle/Longshot, Captain Atom/Havok, etc. That’s a much better contest. I think the X-Men would also have an exciting fight against the various incarnations of the Titans (who wants to see a Phoenix/Raven throw down?) or the Legion of Super-Heroes (Karate Kid vs Wolverine!). ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/229 "2004-12-01T13:36:03Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > That’s a much better contest. I think the X-Men would also have an exciting fight against the various incarnations of the Titans (who wants to see a Phoenix/Raven throw down?) or the Legion of Super-Heroes (Karate Kid vs Wolverine!). Val hands Logan his ass in under a minute. And when Logan gets back up, he does it again. And again. But it’d be fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/230 "2004-12-01T16:28:39Z")
What about Wolverine’s “I can’t lose a fight no matter how unbalanced or unlikely it is that I win” aura that he carries with him? When it collides with Batman’s “I can do anything you can do, I can do anythign better than you” aura the entire arena explode in a sticky mess of poorly plotted fights and fanboy excretions. Sadly, Batman and Wolverine are the only ones left standing. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/231 "2004-12-01T16:32:45Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > What about Wolverine’s “I can’t lose a fight no matter how unbalanced or unlikely it is that I win” aura that he carries with him? When it collides with Batman’s “I can do anything you can do, I can do anythign better than you” aura the entire arena explode in a sticky mess of poorly plotted fights and fanboy excretions. Sadly, Batman and Wolverine are the only ones left standing. I’m planning to pick up a copy of Wolverine #22 at the comic store today. It’s part of an ongoing plot wherein Wolverine has been brainwashed by Them and sent against the various superhumans of the Marvel Universe. Reportedly, in this issue, the Fantastic Four kicks his Canadian butt. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/232 "2004-12-01T16:56:15Z")
Good. He’s needed a good kicking. Now all we need is Batman to be beaten like a red-headed stepchild and I’ll be a happy man. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/233 "2004-12-01T17:00:21Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Good. He’s needed a good kicking. Now all we need is Batman to be beaten like a red-headed stepchild and I’ll be a happy man. Do you even read comics with Batman in them? The JLA’s first battle with Prometheus comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/234 "2004-12-01T17:03:19Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Good. He’s needed a good kicking. Now all we need is Batman to be beaten like a red-headed stepchild and I’ll be a happy man. Having his back broken wasn’t enough? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/235 "2004-12-01T17:05:40Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Good. He’s needed a good kicking. Now all we need is Batman to be beaten like a red-headed stepchild and I’ll be a happy man. Happened. It was called Knightfall. Super-Strong villain named Bane broke everyone out of Arkham Asylum, and after Batman was all tuckered out from rounding them up, ambushed him in the Batcave (he also figured out Bruce’s ID) and broke his back. More recently, it looks like he “lost” a recent gang war, in that one Robin’s dead, another’s severely injured, and a third’s left Gotham. Plus, he’s lost all his friends in the Police Force and allowed a villain to take control over the Gotham underworld. So that’s bad. Batfans don’t think he’s invivncible, just not to be underestimated. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/236 "2004-12-01T17:24:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you even read comics with Batman in them? > > The JLA’s first battle with Prometheus comes to mind. I’ve read a fair number of Batman comics. I won’t be happy until he is dead and forgotten. I genuinely feel that he is the most over hyped comic character ever whose abilities and feats are totally disproportional to his powers. I just can’t suspend disbelief for Batman and once that happens then the character is just silly. Regardless, this is a total hijack so lets get back to the fight at hand. Have we confirmed Rogue’s powers (can she call up the absorbed powers of anyone she has ever touched?)? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/237 "2004-12-01T17:31:11Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I won’t be happy until he is dead and forgotten. > [@Lochdale](#): > > Now all we need is Batman to be beaten like a red-headed stepchild and I’ll be a happy man. Selfcontradiction. Does not compute. Thank you, come again. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/238 "2004-12-01T17:54:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Selfcontradiction. Does not compute. Thank you, come again. :rolleyes: Don’t get out much? I have given my opinion on Batman because several posters responded to my post. This is clearly a hijack so why don’t we just get back to the fight at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/239 "2004-12-01T18:18:38Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Have we confirmed Rogue’s powers (can she call up the absorbed powers of anyone she has ever touched?)? Yep. She can. If you need proof, Aesiron has the cite in one of his posts and I posted a link to the secondary mutations/x-men thread. I’ve even read the issues after she gained the ability. Rogues powers are now only as limited as the writer wants to make them. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/240 "2004-12-01T18:28:28Z")
Hmmm well that changes things a little. I had no idea that she had gotten that powerful! She could be Superman’s equal then. Seems Marvel is stepping up in power with her and the Sentry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242.md?page=13)