# Showdown! Justice League of America vs. the X-Men **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 23, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242 "2004-11-23T06:03:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/101 "2004-11-24T17:25:35Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > The X-Men have no one in Superman or Flash’s league… and the GL and J’onn matchups are heavily weighted in the Justice League’s favor. This is a bit of a hijack, but what did they do with the Flash that put him in Superman’s league? He used to be really fast, but otherwise pretty wimpy when I was (admittedly not as an avid reader) was reading comic books. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/102 "2004-11-24T17:27:30Z")
Because my head _really_ is not into doing my project plan [Source](http://www.marveldirectory.com/teams/xmen.htm) X-Men Directory _ **Active** _ Archangel Banshee Beast Bishop Chamber Cyclops Emma Frost Gambit Iceman Lifeguard M Nightcrawler Northstar Phoenix Professor X Rogue Stacy X Storm Thunderbird III Wolverine _ **Inactive** _ Cable Cannonball Dazzler Forge Havok Jubilee Longshot Maggott Magneto Marrow Polaris Shadowcat Sunfire _ **Deceased** _ Changeling Colossus Psylocke Thunderbird I I can’t vouch for completeness. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/103 "2004-11-24T17:30:05Z")
Any of those, by my rules, are acceptable. 😉 What about the JLA–is there a list for them? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/104 "2004-11-24T17:34:37Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Any of those, by my rules, are acceptable. 😉 > > What about the JLA–is there a list for them? Yes, but I have to run to a meeting, so I don’t have time to parse it. It is much longer. [Justice League](http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/List%20of%20Justice%20League%20members) ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/105 "2004-11-24T17:35:16Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > This is a bit of a hijack, but what did they do with the Flash that put him in Superman’s league? He used to be really fast, but otherwise pretty wimpy when I was (admittedly not as an avid reader) was reading comic books. He can travel through time, react at lightspeed, and steal or lend speed. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/106 "2004-11-24T17:38:07Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Yes, but I have to run to a meeting, so I don’t have time to parse it. It is much longer. > [Justice League](http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/List%20of%20Justice%20League%20members) Tha Marvel site seems a bit out of date. This JL one is assuredly incomplete. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/107 "2004-11-24T17:57:49Z")
Well, even at current power levels, both Jean and Professor X have power levels that fluctuate at the same level as J’onns depending on writer. I guess J’onn vs. Xavier would be a decent match. They’d go to the astral plane to discuss hair growth tips. 😛 Course, if ya really want to push it, I can toss in Rachael Summers Phoenix at no charge 😉 Does anybody know the alien invasion that Xavier foiled. I want to say the B’Nokk or something like that. They were kind of a one shot alien threat. Not as bad as the Skrull, but more threatening than Alf. The marvel list is pretty out of date. Juggernaut isn’t on it. Havok, Cannonball, Shadowcat, and Polaris are all current members. And who the holy heck are Stacy X and Thunderbird III? What happened to Thunderbird II? If he died, why even risk becoming number III? Last sort of hijack, I promise. What’s going on with Aquaman now? Last I knew he got “darker” and had a hook hand. Now he has mystical powers? How many colors are they going to paint that turd? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/108 "2004-11-24T18:06:47Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Last sort of hijack, I promise. What’s going on with Aquaman now? Last I knew he got “darker” and had a hook hand. Now he has mystical powers? How many colors are they going to paint that turd? I’d be more inclined to answer if you didn’t have such obvious contempt for the character. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/109 "2004-11-24T18:41:33Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Tha Marvel site seems a bit out of date. > > This JL one is assuredly incomplete. I’m working with what I’ve got. Decent starting point. I haven’t seen any other sites that are 100% up-to-date. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/110 "2004-11-24T20:18:25Z")
CandidGamera wrote: > [@](#): > > Gee, I wonder what the top selling title this month was… Identity Crisis? Overall Marvel consistently outsells DC. One of the problems that DC suffers from is that many of there characters were generated in a more cartoonish time in comicdom. Thus, having a character move a planet or travel true time was entirely appropriate because the rule was the more fantastical the better. I think this has subsequently hampered the characters and the comic books themselves. For example. in the literal fight of his life, Superman did not use his faster than light speed (?) to defeat Doomsday. The writers themselves recognize this and I think it hampers development. This is one of the reasons I prefer Marvel. Rabid fanboys like Candid will bring up powers of Superman from 1947 and expect it to be treated as canon. That’s grand for these sort of discussions but I do think it turns people off the characters themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/111 "2004-11-24T20:20:41Z")
I’m a :wally Any chance of an edit feature on these boards? their for there and to finish my thought…one of the reasons I prefer Marvel is because they characters seem more real to me. Even Batman, the most unrealistic and unbelieveable character in comicdom, is elevated to near godhood in DC. Just doesn’t work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/112 "2004-11-24T20:24:08Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I’d be more inclined to answer if you didn’t have such obvious contempt for the character. What are you, his mother? 😛 I’m sorry. Years of aquaman jokes have ruined my brain. I really am curious to find out what has become of the blond man in the green speedo. Please tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/113 "2004-11-24T20:27:16Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I’m a :wally > > Any chance of an edit feature on these boards? > > their for there and to finish my thought…one of the reasons I prefer Marvel is because they characters seem more real to me. Even Batman, the most unrealistic and unbelieveable character in comicdom, is elevated to near godhood in DC. Just doesn’t work for me. That’s my part of my problem. The other part is the dumbing down of said godlike abilities to suit whatever villain is threatening the whatnot. Superman can lay a beatdown on nearly every uber villain known to man, but a baldman in power armor gives him fits. :rolleyes: I really need to stop hijacking this thread :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/114 "2004-11-24T20:29:18Z")
As do I. My apologies for the hijack. Superman is God and Batman beats even God, if prepared etc. etc. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/115 "2004-11-24T20:53:18Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > As do I. My apologies for the hijack. Superman is God and Batman beats even God, if prepared etc. etc. > > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz You say this as if Spider-Man, Wolverine, Captain America, and the Punisher (to name a few) haven’t gone through this at various points in their careers. Heck, Marvel’s got plenty of gods. Thor is _literally_ a god, for example. Honestly, I just don’t get why Marvelites think they’re so much more entertaining because (some of) their characters are so wimpy (some of the time). The JLA, indiviually and in a group when written well which I concede they aren’t always, faces epic level threats that are legitimate threats to them. Doomsday _was_ a super-speedster himself, for example. Lex’s power armor is Iron Man class and usually incorporates Superman’s greatest weakness. Flash’s rogues gallery could easily take on the JLA and make a good showing. Honestly, I’ll take a DC science epic over a Marvel whine-fest (oh woe is me, for Jean is dead! Again!) any day of the week, and twice on Wednesdays. It’s about men in spandex punching other men in spandex, it’s supposed to be silly and fantastic, and I don’t mind at all when it’s taken to the limit. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/116 "2004-11-24T21:03:42Z")
Well, you are in the slight minority on that one. > [@](#): > > Doomsday _was_ a super-speedster himself, for example. No, he wasn’t. Severl characters commented on his speed but he was not “faster than light speed” like Superman is :rolleyes: They never suggested that the fight was going at anything other than normal speed. Again, it’s the cartoonish old issues that hamper the DC characters (but that feed the fanboys fanciful use of their powers). Thor is a god but he is clearly the most powerful member of the Avengers and is regularly made out to be so. There isn’t a team like the JLA. Moreover, Captain America would never be considered a heavy hitter in the MU like Batman is in DC. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/117 "2004-11-24T21:06:14Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > This is a bit of a hijack, but what did they do with the Flash that put him in Superman’s league? He used to be really fast, but otherwise pretty wimpy when I was (admittedly not as an avid reader) was reading comic books. Actually, that’s kinda backward. The original Flash was much more powerful than the current one. OF could vibrate though solid objects, give and steal speed, along with the superspeed and quick reaction time. There was a thread on this like two years ago called “All I can do is run fast.” I’ll have to look. **D\_Odds** , Storm v. Wonder Woman. The real winner is me. 😃 If you make it a two on two and include Starfire\* and Rogue I’d pay money for that. \*I know, I know. Not in the League. But still. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/118 "2004-11-24T21:08:49Z")
Some individual efforts, assuming the ‘all members, ever’ and ‘dossier’ are still in play, but the JSA is not (JSA would be totally unfair): A GL neutralizes Rogue. Doesn’t even need to be a good one. Gnort can do it. Even if she’s in her yellow/green costume, there’s enough non-yellow on her for a corps-era GL to get a grip. Mimic needs to be taken out by a GL, too - he’ll probably have Supes’s invulnerability or another dangerous power by now. Let’s give it to Guy. He’s most likely to be ruthless enough to be sure it’ll work. As I said earlier, first thing Flash has to do is peg the telepaths. Give them a telepathic damper at least, although putting their lights out to be sure would be a good idea. Let’s give this one to Wally. He’s faster. Superman goes after Wolverine. He has the adamantium and healing factor, but even so, after a Kryptonian haymaker, he’s out for a while. Not being enchanted, made of Kryptonite, or with Superman-level strength behind them, his claws aren’t doing worse than giving Supes’s tailor some more work. J’onn stays out until any pyrokinetics are taken out - not a hard job. ‘Erif t’nac trats’ ought to do it. Once that lot’s taken out, it’s a walk. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/119 "2004-11-24T21:47:51Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > Honestly, I just don’t get why Marvelites think they’re so much more entertaining because (some of) their characters are so wimpy (some of the time). Which makes me laugh, given that, far as I can tell, DC has more major non-powered heroes than Marvel. (They’re probably about even for the villains.) Marvel has Punisher, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Black Cat and Elektra (none of whom are consistantly (anti-)heroes.). Probably a couple others I can’t think of. Most of Marvel’s non-powered characters are criminals who get their butts kicked by the ‘weak’ heroes like Spider-man. DC has The Atom (original), Green Arrow (2 of them), Speedy/Arsenal, Black Canary (2 of them), the Sandman (Wes Dodds, not Garrett Sanford, Hector Hall or Morpheus), Batman, Robin (4 of them), Batgirl (2 of them), and a lot of others (after this point, though, ‘major’ begins to decline in accuracy). 14/5 in DC’s favour, 8/5 if you count the legacy characters as 1, not 2 (or 4). With partial lists. GL, Iron Man, Starman and the like all count as powered for the purposes of this list, since their gagetry gives them major powers. (But even if not, both lists inflate about in the same proportion to what they have now.) > [@](#): > > The original Flash was much more powerful than the current one. OF could vibrate though solid objects, give and steal speed, along with the superspeed and quick reaction time. Er…stealing and giving speed is Wally’s power not Barry’s - probably a result of figuring out the Speed Force. And Wally can vibrate through objects…it just has a tendency to make things explode now. (BTW, Barry was not the Original Flash. That was Jay Garrick, back in the 40s, who is the least powerful of the Flashes.) The Flashes tend to get more powerful as time goes on. Jay was fast. Barry picked up a few extra tricks, by vibrating at superspeed, Wally figured out how to manipulate the Speed Force, and Bart’s shaping up to be more powerful than him. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242/120 "2004-11-24T21:49:31Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Er…stealing and giving speed is Wally’s power not Barry’s - probably a result of figuring out the Speed Force. And Wally can vibrate through objects…it just has a tendency to make things explode now. (BTW, Barry was not the Original Flash. That was Jay Garrick, back in the 40s, who is the least powerful of the Flashes.) Just to clarify, this part’s to Wolfian, not Menocchio. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showdown-justice-league-of-america-vs-the-x-men/276242.md?page=7)