# Showing Cleavage Then Covering It- Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892 "2013-01-21T07:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/361 "2013-01-29T19:16:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You are weaseling here. > > To my knowledge no one has claimed that anyone who dresses in the way you describe needs to worry about what anyone else thinks. And certainly not me, at any rate. We are discussing women who push the envelope. > > Per my experience with professional circles in the NY/NJ area, showing cleavage - which is what this thread is about, per the title and OP - in a professional setting is very much the exception. And just to make sure, I did a bit of a search and it seems to confirm my impressions. See for example: [9 Things Your Coworkers Won’t Tell You](http://www.womansday.com/life/etiquette-manners/coworkers-wont-tell-you)Or [Specifics for women’s business casual](http://www.career.vt.edu/JobSearchGuide/BusinessCasualAttire.html#WOMEN)Or: [What Not To Wear To Work](http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/22/office-fashion-sexy-forbes-woman-style-clothes.html)There are any number of similar sources. > > And that’s the type of situation this thread is about AFAICT. Some bustier women genuinely do find it difficult to completely cover their cleavage, though. And as explained throughout the thread, mistakes happen - a new shirt’s more revealing than expected, weight gain or the time of the month changes things, the clothing’s OK except in certain positions, the office is warmer than usual and women and men both loosen their top button, etc, etc. But even if you consider that a woman has breached office etiquette by showing more cleavage than usual, that doesn’t give you the right to make the far bigger faux pas of staring at her tits. You might notice them and glance down briefly without even meaning to, but don’t stare. That’s all. It’s not difficult. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/362 "2013-01-29T19:45:56Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I was instructed on post 295 "_As an adult, you should be able to walk through an office full of buck-naked supermodels without batting an eye or dropping your gaze._ " I offered a examples of typical ones, since I doubt you’re familiar with mine (my grandfather). You’re welcome to name your own role model. I look forward to learning what man you think is a paragon of a mature male behavior _and_ a hopelessly rude boobaphile. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There are any number of similar sources. > > And that’s the type of situation this thread is about AFAICT. Even allowing that those sources are right (in my experience it’s female employees who are most disdainful of short skirts and overt cleavage), this is more an ettiquette issue. Someone dressed inappropriately has not declared open season on what it seems everyone’s agreed is rude behavior. The rules of etiquette are plain - you politely mention an issue that can be fixed or adjusted (popped button, open fly, missed belt loop), you politely ignore everything else, period. You don’t point, laugh, or ogle, claiming you couldn’t help yourself. This is polite adult behavior. Little kids stare at handicapped people, burn victims, weird hair colors, ample cleavage and such, but we expect adults to control their reactions to such things out of respect for the person, regardless of their views. It’s amazing how far guys are willing to go to raionalize creepy, rude behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/363 "2013-01-29T21:20:53Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I offered a examples of typical ones, since I doubt you’re familiar with mine (my grandfather). You’re welcome to name your own role model. I look forward to learning what man you think is a paragon of a mature male behavior _and_ a hopelessly rude boobaphile. You offered shitty examples, period. Since it’s a person you don’t know, i can’t see how you would weigh on him. > [@](#): > > Even allowing that those sources are right (in my experience it’s female employees who are most disdainful of short skirts and overt cleavage), this is more an ettiquette issue. Someone dressed inappropriately has not declared open season on what it seems everyone’s agreed is rude behavior. The rules of etiquette are plain - you politely mention an issue that can be fixed or adjusted (popped button, open fly, missed belt loop), you politely ignore everything else, period. You don’t point, laugh, or ogle, claiming you couldn’t help yourself. > > This is polite adult behavior. Little kids stare at handicapped people, burn victims, weird hair colors, ample cleavage and such, but we expect adults to control their reactions to such things out of respect for the person, regardless of their views. > > **It’s amazing how far guys are willing to go to raionalize creepy, rude behavior**. (my bolding) You want us to do that, and try to find anything that might point to that, but it isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/364 "2013-01-29T22:10:06Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Sure. But at least in my case, I’ve had the ogling and staring happen with no cleavage at all, or with the kind of cleavage that the angle has to be right to get a peek. OK, so your situation is not the one we are discussing. It’s a big world with a lot of people out there, and there are all types. The fact that some men will ogle even a conservatively dressed woman is not an indication that there are not also women who dress provocatively to some extent. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Some bustier women genuinely do find it difficult to completely cover their cleavage, though. And as explained throughout the thread, mistakes happen - a new shirt’s more revealing than expected, weight gain or the time of the month changes things, the clothing’s OK except in certain positions, I agree with all this. (I’ve noticed myself that heavier women tend to expose more cleavage, possibly as compensation in some cases, but mostly (I imagine) because their cleavage simply starts higher.) > [@](#): > > the office is warmer than usual and women and men both loosen their top button This one I don’t buy at all. You never see men exposing that much in the heat. > [@](#): > > But even if you consider that a woman has breached office etiquette by showing more cleavage than usual, that doesn’t give you the right to make the far bigger faux pas of staring at her tits. You might notice them and glance down briefly without even meaning to, but don’t stare. That’s all. It’s not difficult. Excellent point. My advice to you is to keep this important advice saved somewhere. Maybe even assign it a shortcut key. This way in case someone ever claims that anyone has the right to stare at a woman’s tits you can post these words of wisdom without the slightest delay. > [@epbrown01](#): > > Even allowing that those sources are right (in my experience it’s female employees who are most disdainful of short skirts and overt cleavage), this is more an ettiquette issue. Someone dressed inappropriately has not declared open season on what it seems everyone’s agreed is rude behavior. Have you considered reading the post I was responding to? ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/365 "2013-01-29T22:30:39Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Warning a close friend that she may be overexposed is a nice favor. Asking a coworker or acquaintance to cover up because you are too distracted by her body to conduct yourself appropriately is gauche and a ticket to HR. All depends on context of course, where I work one manager had to have a staff meeting about atire. He said " If I can see up it, through it or down it. Don’t wear it." In his section some women were dressing up at work like it was pick up night at a bar. The same place an employee came in on holloween dressed up like the XXX version of Tinkerbell, she was sent home to change. No one was dragged to HR. If it matters any there’s a really gorgeous women who owns the coffee shop in our building, when she bends over to get food items out of the display case she was wearing a low cut top revealing her awesome gals. I looked over to the women in line behind me and a lot of them had a look of disgust on their face as they stared at her lady friends. It was hilarious. Apparently they took offence to her ta-tas. Meow. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/366 "2013-01-29T22:37:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree with all this. (I’ve noticed myself that heavier women tend to expose more cleavage, possibly as compensation in some cases, but mostly (I imagine) because their cleavage simply starts higher.)This one I don’t buy at all. You never see men exposing that much in the heat. > > Excellent point. My advice to you is to keep this important advice saved somewhere. Maybe even assign it a shortcut key. This way in case someone ever claims that anyone has the right to stare at a woman’s tits you can post these words of wisdom without the slightest delay. It doesn’t take much to expose cleavage in women’s shirts. It really doesn’t. Hell, I’ve actually had trouble finding shirts that exposed no cleavage, and I’m not busty. And if you’re not defending staring, then what are you defending? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/367 "2013-01-29T22:56:01Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > And if you’re not defending staring, then what are you defending? I am not on a campaign to defend anything. This is a discussion on a MB, and I’ve made some points relating to to various things that others have said. Feel similarly free to read my posts and comment on anything that I’ve actually said that you disagree with. But don’t make up my positions for me. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/368 "2013-01-29T23:04:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I am not on a campaign to defend anything. This is a discussion on a MB, and I’ve made some points relating to to various things that others have said. > > Feel similarly free to read my posts and comment on anything that I’ve actually said that you disagree with. But don’t make up my positions for me. I haven’t seen you clarify or take a position on anything. Your contributions have led us on several confusing tangents unrelated to taking a side. Have you taken a side or offered an opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/369 "2013-01-29T23:10:54Z")
The notion that this is about “taking a side” is one that I dispute. I prefer to look at each issue and aspect independently. And this mistaken notion that if you agree with something in general you have to support every conceivable rationale for that position is also one that contributes to confusion about the issue. Because not only are you locked into yourself supporting all sorts of bogus arguments simply because they support “your side”, but you’re also apt to interpret anyone who objects to any of these arguments as someone who is not on “your side”, and who can therefore be assumed to disagree with everything “your side” supports. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/370 "2013-01-29T23:16:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The notion that this is about “taking a side” is one that I dispute. I prefer to look at each issue and aspect independently. > > And this mistaken notion that if you agree with something in general you have to support every conceivable rationale for that position is also one that contributes to confusion about the issue. Because not only are you locked into yourself supporting all sorts of bogus arguments simply because they support “your side”, but you’re also apt to interpret anyone who objects to any of these arguments as someone who is not on “your side”, and who can therefore be assumed to disagree with everything “your side” supports. I have no idea what any of this means. Did you translate it from English? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/371 "2013-01-29T23:19:54Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > It doesn’t take much to expose cleavage in women’s shirts. It really doesn’t. Hell, I’ve actually had trouble finding shirts that exposed no cleavage, and I’m not busty. > > And if you’re not defending staring, then what are you defending? No, it really doesn’t. There are two types of office appropriate shirts sold currently - tight fitting and shows cleavage. It isn’t necessarily [cleavage](http://gofugyourself.com/emmy-awards-fug-or-fab-carpet-christina-hendricks-09-2012) but you can usually see the dip between breasts in anything that doesn’t have a v-neck. High neck tunics are currently out of fashion for work. And anything with enough drape to make it not tight fitting that doesn’t have a very high neck is prone to shift. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/372 "2013-01-30T00:02:57Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > You offered shitty examples, period. I accept your criticism and await your non-shitty examples. > [@](#): > > You want us to do that, and try to find anything that might point to that, but it isn’t true. Basically, you and FP are now claiming you don’t have and any position on the subject. It gives the impression that you’ve both realized your stance was insupportable. The rest of your posts will, I suspect, be vehement attempts to convince everyone else of that. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/373 "2013-01-30T00:18:10Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I accept your criticism and await your non-shitty examples. > > Basically, you and FP are now claiming you don’t have and any position on the subject. It gives the impression that you’ve both realized your stance was insupportable. The rest of your posts will, I suspect, be vehement attempts to convince everyone else of that. Good luck. I’ll simply quote myself "Only on the SDMB do I find women that think that breasts, regardless of their beauty or how prominently they are shown should never be **noticed**. What’s next, you come naked and if soembody looks at you you’ll say “yeah, I have a vagina, deal with it”?. **Jerks that make other people feel bad are always wrong** , but the idea the women forget that straight men are sexual beings is ridiculous. I’ve told friends and coworkers to “cover the girls a bit” because I \*\*respect \*\*them not because i want to control women’s bodies." (my boldings) Look at the nice word “notice”, not leer, stare, drool. Look at what i say about jerks. Look at the word respect. At that point on the thread even saying you noticed breasts was rape. Finally, the mood is now “notice, don’t stare, keep on working”; aka what I said. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/374 "2013-01-30T00:22:34Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I’ll simply quote myself > > "Only on the SDMB do I find women that think that breasts, regardless of their beauty or how prominently they are shown should never be **noticed**. What’s next, you come naked and if soembody looks at you you’ll say “yeah, I have a vagina, deal with it”?. > > **Jerks that make other people feel bad are always wrong** , but the idea the women forget that straight men are sexual beings is ridiculous. I’ve told friends and coworkers to “cover the girls a bit” because I \*\*respect \*\*them not because i want to control women’s bodies." > > (my boldings) > Look at the nice word “notice”, not leer, stare, drool. > Look at what i say about jerks. > Look at the word respect. > > At that point on the thread even saying you noticed breasts was rape. Finally, the mood is now “notice, don’t stare, keep on working”; aka what I said. I think you’re imagining what other people have said. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/375 "2013-01-30T00:27:29Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I’ll simply quote myself > > "Only on the SDMB do I find women that think that breasts, regardless of their beauty or how prominently they are shown should never be **noticed**. What’s next, you come naked and if soembody looks at you you’ll say “yeah, I have a vagina, deal with it”?. > > **Jerks that make other people feel bad are always wrong** , but the idea the women forget that straight men are sexual beings is ridiculous. I’ve told friends and coworkers to “cover the girls a bit” because I \*\*respect \*\*them not because i want to control women’s bodies." > > (my boldings) > Look at the nice word “notice”, not leer, stare, drool. > Look at what i say about jerks. > Look at the word respect. > > At that point on the thread even saying you noticed breasts was rape. Finally, the > mood is now “notice, don’t stare, keep on working”; aka what I said. Yeah, the thing is, you’re operating from a couple of bad ideas there. Telling someone to cover the girls **isn’t** respectful. It’s clear you think it is, but it should be equally clear you’re pretty much on your own with that one. And you continue to think there’s a cool, unobtrusive way to gawk at someone (“notice”). There isn’t. You’re kidding yourself. The only polite course is to not look at all. You continue to define your behavior as good by pointing out you’ve seen worse, like not being a serial rapist is a big accomplishment and we should be proud. I **still** say that’s a pretty low bar you’ve set for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/376 "2013-01-30T01:49:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Perhaps it would be illustrative to imagine a guy who is trying to quit smoking or alcohol or whatever, and now finds himself in a situation where these were readily available and on hand. Yeah, he’s not completely helpless and drawn to ingest them, and certainly the right thing for the guy to do would be to avoid them. But he would probably be more comfortable if they weren’t right there in front of him. > > That’s what I think is meant by “distraction”. That’s what I mean, anyway. Wow, so you are a recovering sex addict and that’s why you expect women to ‘cover up’ around you? That is what you are implying with this horrible analogy, because equating a momentary distraction with avoiding triggers of addiction are not even close to the same thing. And we are talking about workplace attire, I would hate to imagine your predicament at the beach or a night club. You live in a world where 50% of the population has breasts, time for you to learn some coping strategies. Men and women are sexual beings. However, as creatures capable of higher intellect and cognitive reasoning than animals, they have the ability to control their urges and impulses in order to conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Also, your “women all think this”, “women all perceive this” and “women’s emotions” is a bunch of long debunked pseudoscience and mansplaining. There is as much variation in the way women think, feel and perceive things, as there is between _any_ person. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/377 "2013-01-30T02:14:57Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I think you’re imagining what other people have said. All this quotes with the same meaning, “A glance is OK, stare and I’ll punch you”, i.e. what I said. You said it yourself. > [@Troppus](#): > > I do catch grins, compliments, and every now and then a stranger will flirt, but nothing scary about that. > [@SmellMyWort](#): > > No shit they can be distracting and no shit they are appealing. No one is disputing that. > [@Troppus](#): > > Interesting that the _majority_ of women \*and men \*posting to this thread feel that women’s bodies can be noticed and admired without causing any ruffled feathers or an HR incident. > [@Troppus](#): > > Look, most women have said that they don’t mind men noticing that they have boobs. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Looking is fine, but don’t stare. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Nobody on this thread has said a glance is wrong; nobody has said men should be mind-wiped for noticing boobs; everybody has said glance, don’t stare. …that’s my point. > [@epbrown01](#): > > Yeah, the thing is, you’re operating from a couple of bad ideas there. Telling someone to cover the girls **isn’t** respectful. It’s clear you think it is, but it should be equally clear you’re pretty much on your own with that one. Look at what another poster said: > [@Troppus](#): > > Warning a close friend that she may be overexposed is a nice favor. As I said before, I’d only tell a person I know well. > [@](#): > > And you continue to think there’s a cool, unobtrusive way to gawk at someone (“notice”). There isn’t. You’re kidding yourself. The only polite course is to not look at all. Look at all the quotes on this post. Your point goes to all of them, including the women who said it’s ok. > [@](#): > > You continue to define your behavior as good by pointing out you’ve seen worse, like not being a serial rapist is a big accomplishment and we should be proud. I **still** say that’s a pretty low bar you’ve set for yourself. Other people’s behaviuor doesn’t make mine good or bad. You’ve imagined that I said so or do you have a specific post in mind? ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/378 "2013-01-30T16:07:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If you have an unrepresentative sample, the fact that it may be the only sample that you have does not imbue it with more meaning. Misapplication of the logic and it doesn’t apply in this context. When I mention the word “consensus” (and not a unanimous agreement, or even state of fact), it’s related to the one we’ve reached, here, in this thread, on this forum, by members offering input on a discussion topic, where they’ve been inadvertently asked to offer subjective qualitative feedback. If this wasn’t clear before, then I’m being very specific about it, now. The OP’s inferences/questions certainly weren’t structured enough to suggest otherwise, hence why I told you before _"In this dimension, agreements “win”_". If you maintain that we’re not speaking for everyone and that this isn’t the most scientifically sound method for arriving at a conclusion, great, I agree. It also misses the point of this more casual discussion and particular part of the forum. > [@](#): > > I was responding to those who made declarations of fact about what men would or would not find distracting, and in this context it’s ludicrous to assert that only a woman’s perspective counts. So you’re defending the idea that people can find things distracting, in this case, cleavage. Got it. > [@](#): > > I disagree that anything has been “debunked”. The statement that women _“wear shirts to show cleavage, then cover them up”_ was loaded. For someone blowing the whistle on absolutes and logical fallacies, you should have quarrel with the two statements in the OP, off the bat. Oddly enough, you don’t. The idea that a woman adjusting her top _“implicates the guy of lechery”_, was not only projecting, but also the same as the above, and combined, amount to what I paraphrased. Both ideas were countered, numerous times, with actual input from the people who have breasts. Call it what you want, but I believe the word is fitting. > [@](#): > > Many women accurately pointed out that often women are not intending to reveal anything, but ISTR that there were also some who said that they did (just that they still didn’t want to be ogled anyway) and even if there weren’t, **the sum of our knowlege is not derived from this thread** , and there is no doubt that some women intentionally wear revealing clothing. All of this has already been covered and established in the thread. I’m not sure what you’re getting at, other than my bolded portion, which was never under dispute. > [@](#): > > I don’t want to make too much of this, because I agree that that the answer to the OP’s question is generally because of reasons given in this thread (e.g. discomfort with perceived leering, different standards for bosses, clothing shifts, and so on), but it’s worth noting anyway because so many posters have attempted to monopolize opinion on this subject. So you understand that the general reasons in this thread are legitimate (:smack:), but disagree with the conduct of some posters. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/379 "2013-01-30T17:20:59Z")
> [@Krouget](#): > > Misapplication of the logic and it doesn’t apply in this context. When I mention the word “consensus” (and not a unanimous agreement, or even state of fact), it’s related to the one we’ve reached, here, in this thread, on this forum, by members offering input on a discussion topic, where they’ve been inadvertently asked to offer subjective qualitative feedback. If this wasn’t clear before, then I’m being very specific about it, now. Understood. But my point was and is that the “consensus” in this particular thread is not particularly meaningful to anything. > [@](#): > > The statement that women _“wear shirts to show cleavage, then cover them up”_ was loaded. For someone blowing the whistle on absolutes and logical fallacies, you should have quarrel with the two statements in the OP, off the bat. Oddly enough, you don’t. If someone claimed that all women do this, I would certainly disagree. I don’t know that this has been claimed anywhere. > [@](#): > > All of this has already been covered and established in the thread. I’m not sure what you’re getting at, other than my bolded portion, which was never under dispute. Not sure what you mean with this. > [@](#): > > So you understand that the general reasons in this thread are legitimate (:smack:), but disagree with the conduct of some posters. Got it. I think these reasons are true in many or most cases, but not in all, as posters to this thread are trying to claim (or at least imply). And there are other issues that have arisen in this thread as well. ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/380 "2013-01-30T18:09:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > […]my point was and is that the “consensus” in this particular thread is not particularly meaningful to anything[…] > [@](#): > > I think these reasons are true in many or most cases[…] No offense, but to express these two ideas in the same post, makes for a very confusing stance. Anyway, cheers.🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892.md?page=20)