# Showing Cleavage Then Covering It- Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892 "2013-01-21T07:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/461 "2013-02-05T20:50:09Z")
> [@EverwonderWhy](#): > > I think you are arguing a strawman. No. I am not arguing that anyone wants the right to be naked - just the opposite. That can’t be a strawman. It’s called reductio ad absurdum, and I even said so. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/462 "2013-02-05T20:52:26Z")
Does this topic remind anyone of **TopTom** , that spammer (he’s banned) who was obsessed with [“Topfreedom”](http://www.tera.ca/) (warning, you may not want to scroll down)(yes, he actually has is own website:eek::D)? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/463 "2013-02-05T20:53:21Z")
> [@EverwonderWhy](#): > > How do these men manage outside of work? Cleavage is bound to be found at the beach, the store, the street, the gym, the movies, the theater, on TV, etc? Yes, and it’s interesting that some dress codes will say “this is not the beach or the gym, so don’t dress like it is…” ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/464 "2013-02-05T20:57:18Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I took the thread to a new level, and broke it out of its assumptions. No, what you did was completely disrespect everyone you are demanding answers from because this epic downer of a thread has covered everything you think is brand new information. New low, maybe. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, no. You may not “horndog-shame” me. Sure I can, if you’re one of the genetically wired to be distracted and obsessed guys: Shame on you. Because the majority rules, even in this thread. If \*reasonable \*men and women accept the dress code of a given workplace, there is no need to change anything for one creepy (or prudish) employee. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/465 "2013-02-05T21:03:13Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > No, what you did was completely disrespect everyone you are demanding answers from because this epic downer of a thread has covered everything you think is brand new information. New low, maybe. No, it hasn’t. I challenged assumptions, some of which I found insulting myself. > [@](#): > > Sure I can, if you’re one of the genetically wired to be distracted and obsessed guys: Shame on you. Because the majority rules, even in this thread. If \*reasonable \*men and women accept the dress code of a given workplace, there is no need to change anything for one creepy (or prudish) employee. Okay, majority rules. So if a majority of your coworkers want you to cover up, will you? Again, you’re just engaging in a circular argument. This isn’t about following the dress code, it’s about questioning it. Not much point otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/466 "2013-02-05T21:07:42Z")
You know what Lance, I’ve read (and participated) in this thread, before it kept going on forever, and I’m not even sure what you are talking about. How about you make a new thread for exactly what you wish to discuss, since the OP of this thread has been answered quite thoroughly. Perhaps instead of your confusing “take it to a new level” you just take it to your own thread, where you can explain exactly what you want. Cause this thread isn’t about a dress code (either following it or questioning it), it started out as “why do women show cleavage and cover it up”. We answered. ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/467 "2013-02-05T21:18:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Yes, and it’s interesting that some dress codes will say “this is not the beach or the gym, so don’t dress like it is…” Which illustrates my point, a dress code is not all about catering to the ‘uncontrollable male sex drive’. Wearing denim overalls to the opera or tennis shoes to a Las Vegas nightclub would likely lead one to be refused entry. It is not up to the standards of the venue, not because men are incapable of behaving normally and respectfully in the presence of cleavage (a little cleavage is likely to be present in almost every walk of life outside of church or the workplace). READ the thread. You are arguing against a position no one is supporting. No one is saying that the workplace should not have any professional standards or dress code. Breasts project off the chest so while cleavage may not be visible straight-on, from different angles it might be. Men who ogle for that angle or leer over a women’s shoulder for a peep are NOT behaving professional or respectfully (as has already been stated many times upthread). Again, for nth time enjoying a casual look is fine. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/468 "2013-02-05T21:24:33Z")
And surely, isn’t the current workplace dress code a result of majority consensus? It used to be lace collars and ankle length (_Ankles! Moan!_) skirts. Can Lance explain why the current standards are offensive to the majority of people responsible for putting them in place… in his new thread. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/469 "2013-02-05T22:05:48Z")
I know the thread is about cleavage but what about those of us who, even when we don’t expose cleavage just have big enough breasts that they cannot be missed. Should I bind my breasts to make your lives easier? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/470 "2013-02-05T23:00:17Z")
> [@EverwonderWhy](#): > > READ the thread. > > You are arguing against a position no one is supporting. No one is saying that the workplace should not have any professional standards or dress code. And I’m not saying anyone is saying that. > [@](#): > > Breasts project off the chest so while cleavage may not be visible straight-on, from different angles it might be. Men who ogle for that angle or leer over a women’s shoulder for a peep are NOT behaving professional or respectfully (as has already been stated many times upthread). And now you’re arguing against a position I dont’ support. ---
**Author:** ![EverwonderWhy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EverwonderWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EverwonderWhy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/471 "2013-02-05T23:06:19Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > You know what Lance, I’ve read (and participated) in this thread, before it kept going on forever, and I’m not even sure what you are talking about. How about you make a new thread for exactly what you wish to discuss, since the OP of this thread has been answered quite thoroughly. Perhaps instead of your confusing “take it to a new level” you just take it to your own thread, where you can explain exactly what you want. Cause this thread isn’t about a dress code (either following it or questioning it), it started out as “why do women show cleavage and cover it up”. We answered. This bears repeating. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/472 "2013-02-05T23:06:42Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > I know the thread is about cleavage but what about those of us who, even when we don’t expose cleavage just have big enough breasts that they cannot be missed. Should I bind my breasts to make your lives easier? No, but be sure to admire that fat guy down the hall with his big butt crack hanging out of his pants. His cleavage also cannot be missed. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/473 "2013-02-05T23:09:26Z")
That makes no sense… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/474 "2013-02-05T23:11:04Z")
> [@maggenpye](#): > > And surely, isn’t the current workplace dress code a result of majority consensus? It used to be lace collars and ankle length (_Ankles! Moan!_) skirts. > > Can Lance explain why the current standards are offensive to the majority of people responsible for putting them in place… in his new thread. Sigh. I didn’t say they were offensive. I simply said that a woman can’t simply declare that she’s going to wear whatever she wants and men must deal with it. That’s my whole point. (And neither could a man, for that matter). It’s a social consensus, and both sexes are part of it. I’m not interested in starting a new thread so people can get all upset and throw more insults at me. I’ve said what I had to say, and it was reasonable and appropriate. So Ill leave it at that. If you dress in a way that causes problems for alot of people, maybe it means you should reconsider. If it’s within a dress code, maybe that means the dress code should be changed. These are complex social issues. They don’t boil down to “I’m gonna show my stuff and you’re a pig if you notice.” ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/475 "2013-02-05T23:15:06Z")
> [@EverwonderWhy](#): > > Cleavage is bound to be found at the beach, the store, the street, the gym, the movies, the theater, on TV, etc? Oh, is it? ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/476 "2013-02-05T23:18:56Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sigh. You know, you really don’t have to announce yourself sighing every time you post. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/477 "2013-02-05T23:29:32Z")
Ladies, after almost 500 posts, I’ve finally deduced the problem. If you would all just stop going to work naked, these poor, beleaguered men who just can’t help themselves, would stop staring at your cleavage. Now, in lo this 21st century, I’ve heard of a new fangled product that would prevent this from occurring and would save the honor of these slaves to their biology… it’s called clothes. Please, avail yourselves of this wonderful phenomenon and right this situation immediately. Otherwise, the male half of the human race might be lost to their baser instincts and where would we be then? It’d be all lesbians here on out. It’s up to you what future you want. SAVE THE MALE HUMANS '13!! ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/478 "2013-02-05T23:30:09Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sigh. > > I didn’t say they were offensive. I simply said that a woman can’t simply declare that she’s going to wear whatever she wants and men must deal with it. That’s my whole point. (And neither could a man, for that matter). It’s a social consensus, and both sexes are part of it. > > I’m not interested in starting a new thread so people can get all upset and throw more insults at me. I’ve said what I had to say, and it was reasonable and appropriate. So Ill leave it at that. > > If you dress in a way that causes problems for alot of people, maybe it means you should reconsider. If it’s within a dress code, maybe that means the dress code should be changed. These are complex social issues. They don’t boil down to “I’m gonna show my stuff and you’re a pig if you notice.” And what we’re saying, over and over again, is that we \*are \*dressing in a way appropriate for the workplace, as defined by the dresscode, as set by management. Those few men, self-described, who can’t control their own reactions are the ones at fault. Read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/479 "2013-02-05T23:57:26Z")
> [@maggenpye](#): > > And what we’re saying, over and over again, is that we \*are \*dressing in a way appropriate for the workplace, as defined by the dresscode, as set by management. Those few men, self-described, who can’t control their own reactions are the ones at fault. And what I’ve said, over and over, is that maybe dress codes should be changed sometimes. I’m not saying that it should be changed just for a few men, but I am saying that it is subject to change. And I am saying that men and women should both have a say in them. I don’t think this is controversial either - dress codes have changed alot in recent history. No, I am not defending ogling. Really not that controversial. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/480 "2013-02-05T23:58:50Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Ladies, after almost 500 posts, I’ve finally deduced the problem. If you would all just stop going to work naked, these poor, beleaguered men who just can’t help themselves, would stop staring at your cleavage. Now, in lo this 21st century, I’ve heard of a new fangled product that would prevent this from occurring and would save the honor of these slaves to their biology… it’s called clothes. Please, avail yourselves of this wonderful phenomenon and right this situation immediately. Otherwise, the male half of the human race might be lost to their baser instincts and where would we be then? It’d be all lesbians here on out. It’s up to you what future you want. > SAVE THE MALE HUMANS '13!! Well, no, you’ve completely missed the point, and that’s because you have been too busy talking and being outraged and not spending enough time listening. But I’m glad you finally acknowledge that clothes are appropriate dress. That’s a start. After all, you wouldn’t be so ridiculous as to claim that a woman who walked naked in the street should expect no male (or otherwise) attention or notice. Would you be that ridiculous? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892.md?page=25)