# Showing Cleavage Then Covering It- Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 21, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892 "2013-01-21T07:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/521 "2013-02-07T00:13:33Z")
“Slut-Shamer”… " Don’t think I’ve ever heard that one before. What’s that phrase’s etiology? Being used by a female against a male? If she’s a slut, shouldn’t she be shamed?😉 I see you have a recent join date, **lance**. Don’t let 'em, getcha down. Consider it a kind of “hazing”. Initiation doesn’t seem to fit here anymore. I know it doesn’t mean much, being that it comes from the “village idiot” (me), but this used to be a pretty decent place where words like that weren’t used against Dopers except in the shit. I mean, _pit_. Just my opinion, of course. Quasi ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/522 "2013-02-07T00:23:06Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > “Slut-Shamer”… " Don’t think I’ve ever heard that one before. What’s that phrase’s etiology? Being used by a female against a male? **If she’s a slut, shouldn’t she be shamed?** 😉 Nice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/523 "2013-02-07T00:37:38Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Nice. 😃 It means that a woman who has been raped, molested, or otherwise violently violated deserved it if she were wearing provocative clothing, excessive makeup, was drinking or at a party, bar, or other social venue. In this thread it refers to men who think that women with attractive bodies deserve to be harassed. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/524 "2013-02-07T00:44:14Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > “Slut-Shamer”… " Don’t think I’ve ever heard that one before. What’s that phrase’s etiology? Being used by a female against a male? If she’s a slut, shouldn’t she be shamed?😉 > …snipped… > > I know it doesn’t mean much, being that it comes from the “village idiot” (me) > > Quasi I would like this thread moved to the Pit in order to respond properly to these incredibly offensive comments. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/525 "2013-02-07T00:57:20Z")
Troppus, see that little red triangle with the exclamation point next to the post number? That’s what that little thing is for. Talk to a mod to get the thread moved. Man!!! Do I have to do _everything_ around here??? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/526 "2013-02-07T01:02:47Z")
I’d like to thank **HoD** for the excellent summation. And to note, just for the record, that I don’t debate idiots, so there’s that. Finally, I agree that this puppy ought to be pit bound. There’s so much more boobs to be covered. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/527 "2013-02-07T01:29:04Z")
Yeah, this has pretty much became your typical pit thread, just like the “I’m not giving up my seat,” thread by **mademoiselle** did. I mean we had people breaking the _**[pit rules!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858)**_ In an _ **IMHO thread!** _ ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/528 "2013-02-07T01:43:09Z")
**AU** , just a friendly word of advice… you might want to brush up what you know about the rules around here regarding junior modding. That might help you stay well within the bounds of what is and isn’t acceptable. I have no comment on your behavior, just a casual observation so you don’t find yourself in hot water. If you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/529 "2013-02-07T01:44:35Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > “Slut-Shamer”… " Don’t think I’ve ever heard that one before. What’s that phrase’s etiology? Being used by a female against a male? If she’s a slut, shouldn’t she be shamed?😉 that was amazing ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/530 "2013-02-07T01:47:19Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > **AU** , just a friendly word of advice… you might want to brush up what you know about the rules around here regarding junior modding. That might help you stay well within the bounds of what is and isn’t acceptable. I have no comment on your behavior, just a casual observation so you don’t find yourself in hot water. If you’re interested. Well isn’t junior moderating acting like a moderator when you aren’t? Because if that’s the case, then maybe my post about that “report” was out of line, but I don’t know how my last post was. I don’t think I was acting like a moderator. I’m new to what “junior modding” really means. What _are_ the rules on junior modding (sorry, I’ve only been here for four months)? Was my last post out of line? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/531 "2013-02-07T03:17:08Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > I would like this thread moved to the Pit in order to respond properly to these incredibly offensive comments. Oh, come on! He’s such a nice guy that he pretended he has horsey blinders on so he didn’t get distracted by the nice hair cutting lady’s bussom. He’s a _gentleman_, damn you! Anyway, I agree- move the thread. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/532 "2013-02-07T07:09:45Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Let’s recap… > > If you’ll all take a moment to review the OP, I believe you’ll find the original issue was not that women are _complaining_ or _taking offense_ when men look at their cleavage, but that they’re simply _covering_ it. He seemed to think that if women choose not to show him their tittays, they are **casting aspersions on his moral fiber** , and implying that he is a lecherous pervert. > > So, various women (and men) responded that it’s probably _not_ personal; the woman may have simply decided that she was too exposed, for a number of reasons that have little or nothing to do with the OP. > . > . > > - \*\*Some guys took this very personally (let’s call them the John Donnes), because apparently, they have seen women cover their cleavage on occasion, _but that does not make them leches_, consarnit! **Some women (the Clara Bartons) said, “There, there. You’re right, it doesn’t. We weren’t talking about _you_. Here’s a cool compress,” while others (the Helen Reddys) doubled down and said, “Waitaminit, so now women _have_ to leave themselves exposed so they don’t offend _you_? Oh, it is ON!” And so it was. > . > . > And of course, some people argued from multiple positions, even contradictory ones. Interestingly, though,** the one position I haven’t yet seen argued or even implicitly agreed with is the one in the OP: that women should not cover their cleavage if they don’t want it seen, because doing so is an insult to the character of the men who can see it. \*\*So after all this, it seems we actually have reached a consensus: OP’s trippin’. So I don’t appreciate a very brief glance from yards away being classified as a hovercraft ogle. As some of your “Clara Bartons” have noted, it’s not always because the viewer is perceived as a creepy ogler but rather because of other factors such as changes in the way the shirt is fitting throughout the day. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/533 "2013-02-07T11:26:07Z")
And it’s CamiSecret to the rescue! For those who want a YouTube version ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/534 "2013-02-07T12:46:12Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > You seem to be confusing a Google search with the biology lesson you are sorely in need of: > > _You_ made the claim that men are genetically wired to stare at cleavage. You, personally, may be socially conditioned to find cleavage interesting, but the existence of productive topless tribes disprove your theory that women ought to be covered to the neck to avoid ogling by all the male primates in the world. Neither you nor any of your gawking brethren are “genetically wired” to stalk cleavage. > > Your theory, in scientific terms, is called "bullshit’. The biological imperative is not driven by the sight of a couple inches of mammary glands. > > As we’ve discussed, the average man is able to conduct himself professionally and appropriately when he stumbles across a v-neck, a gap between the buttons, a seated co-worker, or a particularly busty gal in a turtleneck. We are meeting the dress code and the standards of public decency as well as dressing to suit the climate, current fashion, and our own personal comfort. If one occasional boor lacks self-control and makes a nuisance of himself (as I suspect you do) then we will out that boor, either by covering up, avoiding him, shooting a dirty look in his direction, complaining aloud, flipping him off, or seeking help from management. Shrug. You do it your way; we’ll do it our way. Perhaps you should understand what I said, not invent BS to cover your theory. I never said that men are genetically programmed to look at cleavage. That would be pointless, as in nature, when men evolved, humans would have been naked. What I would have said ( and I’m not going to troll through loads of posts to find the specific one ) is something like " men are genetically programmed to copulate with as many females as possible" Nothing about cleavage there. Nowadays, though men can’t act on that impulse anymore, they do divert the copulation urge into the looking urge. As you are being personal about my social conditioning, I can tell you that I, personally, find large mammaries decidedly unappealing, and were I in an office surrounded by humungous bouncing breasts being thrust at me from all sides, my only urge would be to run, as far and as fast as possible. I said I’m a leg man, and as western women have resorted to covering their pins with a male garment ( trousers ) there is absolutely no way that I will be oggling/ looking at or perving at most western women. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/535 "2013-02-07T12:57:48Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Perhaps you should understand what I said, not invent BS to cover your theory. > I never said that men are genetically programmed to look at cleavage. That would be pointless, as in nature, when men evolved, humans would have been naked. > What I would have said ( and I’m not going to troll through loads of posts to find the specific one ) is something like " men are genetically programmed to copulate with as many females as possible" Nothing about cleavage there. > Nowadays, though men can’t act on that impulse anymore, they do divert the copulation urge into the looking urge. > > As you are being personal about my social conditioning, I can tell you that I, personally, find large mammaries decidedly unappealing, and were I in an office surrounded by humungous bouncing breasts being thrust at me from all sides, my only urge would be to run, as far and as fast as possible. > I said I’m a leg man, and as western women have resorted to covering their pins with a male garment ( trousers ) there is absolutely no way that I will be oggling/ looking at or perving at most western women. I’m not sure that the “I’m programmed by evolution to rape women, hey look, I’ve downgraded that to gawking” argument is a winning one. If you have an evolutionary imperative to fuck women, I don’t think that could be subsumed by mere looking. And if it can be downgraded that drastically, it should be a really simple matter to go from looking to glancing. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/536 "2013-02-07T20:02:12Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > “Slut-Shamer”… " Don’t think I’ve ever heard that one before. What’s that phrase’s etiology? Being used by a female against a male? If she’s a slut, shouldn’t she be shamed?😉 I thought men liked sluts? Now, I am really confused. Aside: I have lost a significant (40 pounds) amount of weight and wore a pre-weightloss top today. There is a significant amount of cleavage and I keep adjusting. This one is going in the Goodwill pile. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/537 "2013-02-07T20:04:45Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > I thought men liked sluts? Now, I am really confused. I never did, don’t, and never will.:rolleyes: But at the same time ;). ---
**Author:** ![OneDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c68b51/32.png) [@OneDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneDay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/538 "2013-02-07T20:12:41Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Why do many women wear shirts that show cleavage, then move their hands to cover it up, by moving the shirt up or closing their outer garment, when a man is talking with them? Why not just don’t wear a shirt that shows cleavage in the first place rather than implicating the man of lechery with the adjustments? Also, I find that the hand movement draws attention to the area in question, so defeats any purpose of modesty. The same behaviour often occurs with older women buttoning their sweaters while speaking with male acquiantances, so anything beneath their turtleneck shirt is less exposed. This happens even when I consciously keep my eyes directed eye level or above. I’ve noticed it is next to impossible to find cute tops that aren’t cut too low. I have tank tops to wear underneath them, but it gets so daggum hot down here that that’s unbearable. One season, I had to mail-order nearly every article of clothing I bought because the ones in my local malls weren’t fitting right up top. I suppose the women who try to cover their cleavage were forced to buy a top they aren’t comfortable with due to lack of there being anything else suitable out there at the time. You’d think we’d have plenty of clothing options, but certain body types can only wear certain types of clothing, so each body is limited as to what looks good on them. That answer was probably entirely too scientific-sounding, but that’s been my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/539 "2013-02-07T20:18:58Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > As you are being personal about my social conditioning, I can tell and as western women have resorted to covering their pins with a male garment ( trousers ) … Since you are apparently posting from the 1950’s, I want to break this to you as gently as possible. Brace yourself. Women are your equals. You may wax nostalgic all day about the days when you could hit dames and broads for wearing pants, but we left your kind in the dusty black and white some 60 years ago. If, after wanking out a few Mad Men episodes you’d like to defend your “male garments” buffoonery, please join us. I’d wait for the laughter to die down, though. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892/540 "2013-02-07T20:26:28Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I never did, don’t, and never will.:rolleyes: But at the same time ;). Easy for you to say, little feller. I’m sure you’re beating off fantasy girls left and right while having the girl of your dreams several times per day, but some of these guys transfixed by the Siren’s cleave must settle for generous girls because selective women just won’t suffer gawkers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-cleavage-then-covering-it-why/647892.md?page=28)