Grow. Up. Us merely having boobs should not be a distraction for any mature man.
Since you find it so tiresome, let me paste in a few quotes from the reasonable men and all the reasonable women in this thread who have no problem with reasonable glances/admiration within reason (The percentage of women who tolerate or ignore a certain amount of attention with no complaints is at 100%, BTW). We’re are collectively pissed at the man-children who insist they be allowed to ogle us into a state of discomfort and borderline fear because they can’t control themselves. If you aren’t one of the guys insisting you are helpless to control yourself, then you are safe from our scorn.
Or to avoid staring at someone with a port wine stain on their face. Or make an effort to talk to someone in a wheelchair without talking to the chair. If your friend has bad teeth, you can hold a conversation with him and not his teeth and not leave him feeling self conscious. You can hold a conversation with someone with a tattoo on his arm and not fixate on the tattoo.
Distractions due to people’s physical attributes are part of life. Learn to deal.
The thing is, that’s not what our thread is about. It’s about the most-likely subconscious gesture of doing a little cleavage mitigation for whatever reason. This may because we’re getting a little creeped out, or it may be because of something else entirely.
It doesn’t matter. You don’t get an opinion on this. It’s totally okay for me to wear whatever I want within the bounds of my organization’s dress code and norms. It’s totally okay for me to want to be a little sexy, and it’s totally okay for me to want to be a little modest. It’s totally okay for me to want to be sexy around some people and less sexy around other people. It’s okay if I want to have a sexy morning and a modest afternoon. It’s okay if I want to wear my “hot” dress when I meet with accounting, and my bulky sweater when I meet with communications. And it’s okay next week if I want to mix it up and do it the other way. If I’m breaking dress code or doing stuff that is really out there, that’s another story. But acceptable professional dress covers a wide range and it’s me- not you- who gets to determine how I navigate that.
If a given dude is too distracted by 50% of the human population to do his job, that’s on him, not on me. I really don’t care about his problem. I dress how I want, you dress like you want. I do my job, you do your job. I have my problems, you have your problems. That’s how it works. It’s not charming or fair for anyone to be resentful of me or angry at me for having boobs and dressing them in a normal manner, and it’s not charming to listen to all kinds of opinions about what I “should” or "should not’ be doing with my boobs. Likewise, if you want to leer or stare or whatever, go for it. I probably won’t like you much, and if it goes over the line I’m calling HR. But do whatever you want, you know?
I also have enough manners and self control not to stare at anyone else’s tits when talking to them. Where did I say otherwise? In fact, I said I specifically did have that self control several times.
Where did I blame it on the target? Perhaps I am just easily distracted. I find it extremely difficult to hold a conversation when there is a television on in the background, but it would be silly to blame the television for that so I do not. It is still a distraction.
That is just silly. The women in this thread, not to mention every one I know, occasionally intend for their boobs to be somewhat distracting. When dressing up for the club, or at least for their SO, for example. Is it so hard to believe they can be distracting occasionally when you do not intend it?
Yeah, I have learned to deal. Just as I described. Several times. Of course you avoid talking to the thing in each one of your examples; that is common decency (except the port wine stain where I would probably let them know about it). But, each one of them is a low level distraction that you deal with. The guy with a port stain takes almost no effort while the first time you talk to someone with an extreme physical deformity might take a great deal of effort.
My point, which seems to have been greatly misinterpreted, is that cleavage falls on this continuum. Depending on the cleavage it is somewhere between a port stain and a third arm. Men with manners do not stare. But, I was letting you know that for a lot of guys it takes conscious thought, just as with some of the other distractions you mentioned.
I must be expressing myself poorly since several of you are taking me wrong, but I surprised at how wrong since I specifically say the opposite of several things ascribed to me.
I think she’s referring to a birthmark, not spilled wine.
I was interviewed by an attractive FBI agent who was letting them hang out somewhat. I think that was on purpose to distract/confuse any males that she was interviewing. I had to work very hard to keep looking her in the eyes or stare at the wall behind her. And no, I wasn’t guilty of anything.
On a similar subject, what’s with women who wear shoes while such hard heels that you can hear them walking a mile away. I’m thinking that it has to be another ‘look at me’ thing.
The hell with it. Let me just throw in the burqa, so men like you don’t have to deal with self control.
Here is the deal. Nature/God/whatever gave me my chest. It’s there for me, and for my chosen mate. Not for you, not for your friends, just us. Some women may be more open, and wish to share more freely. But that should not be the default in your mind.
If I see a shirt or a dress, I will get it if I like the style. No, I don’t think, “I like the style, but what if some man who can’t control himself looks down my chest?”. I should not have to base my fashion decisions on your inability to control yourself. When is the last time a man had this go through their head when looking for basic casual clothes, or workwear?
I typically wear necklines that go to the collarbone, and knee length skirts. I do this because I like the way they look on me. I know, I know, that makes me such a feminist bitch.
Yes, I sometimes wear lower cut things, that may show slight cleavage. I do this, because I like the style of that outfit. You know, the color, the trim, whatever. I dress for myself, you see, not for the men of the world. I cannot think of one time, outside of a date, I got dressed with the male gaze in mind. I wear what. I like because…I like it. I bought it, I paid for it, so if anybody should be getting the enjoyment out of it, it should be me. I should not be letting those with little self control dictate my life, or how I spend my money.
Maybe we like the style of that pair of shoes. Many heels have a steel rod in them for support. That steel is often what is making the noise you hear. Oh, the horror, a woman picked something for herself!
Also, some men’s dress shoes make tons of noise on hard floors. Ever wonder where the term “sneakers” came from? You see, before that, most shoes were pretty noisy.
Not everything a woman does is for the attention of random men. :rolleyes:
Every time I go out I have to find a baggy shirt so women don’t end up staring at my bulging abdominal muscles.
We live in a world where some women like to look pretty and some men like to look at the pretty women.
It’s foolish for either group to expect the other to change.
Here is the thing. It taking conscious thought is your problem, not ours. No matter what we are wearing. We don’t want to know its a struggle. Don’t make it our problem, any more than you’d make it the problem of the guy in the wheelchair that its hard not to sound patronizing. Or let the guy with the tattoo know you think the tattoo is not attractive.
If you make it our problem, by mentioning it, staring, or glancing too frequently, don’t be surprised if we respond with body language or words that indicate we aren’t comfortable. It may be a warm fuzzy feeling for men to know that they are being viewed as a sexual object every time it happens, no matter who is doing the viewing…but it isn’t always a warm fuzzy feeling for women to feel objectified in that manner.
Yes, a port wine stain is a birthmark.
How are you supposed to tell, exactly? I have a pair of two inch heels from Easy Spirit which I love. When I bought them, I tried them on in the store. Carpeted. Then I tried them on at home. Carpeted. Walk on tile. Soft noise. Walk in the office. Carpeted.
Suddenly when you are walking on a hardwood floor or other such your shoes are making way more noise than you expected. You could shrivel up and die of embarrassment. Or you could accept that like sneakers sometimes squeak, heels are sometimes going to make noise.
In addition to mademoiselle’s post, the whole point of this thread was a man was complaining that us women cover our cleavage sometimes. Well, if
a) we are going to wear something, whether it has cleavage or not, that might possibly reveal we have breasts,
b) it takes “conscious thought” to not stare at them
c) we are, ipso facto, going to be adjusting ourselves and covering ourselves up. Because I don’t think you guys are as subtle as you think you are!
I don’t think it’s hard to believe that they can be distractions, and I don’t think most reasonable women do, either. This is why most have the forethought to dress accordingly and adjust when that fails-- not because they consciously wanted to provide any type of selective show, but because mishaps happen. In an ideal circumstance, that’s where it would start and end. The thing is, some people read too much into it, while others question the motive…which mirrors a lot of common misconceptions and falsehoods for life, in general. I can honestly see how it would get painfully annoying with any type of regularity, and I really wouldn’t care for justification.
-Story time-
Towards the end of previous workday, one of my coworkers was noticeably tired and ready to go home. Slightly slouched over her desk, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t her intention to have her chest on display, but as it was, we can chalk that up to an eight hour day, where like me, clothing and lady parts (ok, not like me), had shifted. While it was obvious that she was more revealing than she intended, proper etiquette meant that while it may have been a distraction, it was only temporary and certainly not the reason I walked into her office. Most of this is pretty secondary and doesn’t warrant further explanation, but not even in an attempt to dodge her breasts, I did what I had to do and left. In this case, she didn’t cover up, but for whatever reason, my behavior was subtle enough that it didn’t remove her from her comfort zone. Emphasis on that last part.
In another case, and this relates to an earlier comment, I have two friends in particular; one with a lazy eye and the other with significant facial scarring. In my honest opinion, those are greater potential distractions, for A. the location on the face, B. not everyone suffers with these, C. they can’t be altered for any other purpose. However, there are appropriate methods for conduct and tact, because the two friends of mine are still individuals. That same course of behavior isn’t exclusive, and so it applies to sexual interests (in this case, cleavage), and exists over a broader spectrum of interpersonal relationships. You act according to the situation. Those that don’t realize this, encounter social challenges, and receive the backlash until they do.
I don’t like to throw the term around loosely, but anything less is objectifying a person and there are real and understandable quarrels with that (figuratively speaking, not directed at you).
Go right ahead and turn around while panting with anticipation. It may be Dr. Furterwho has attracted your gaze.
Krouget, I really like you. Your input is much appreciated.
And I imagine your tired coworker is quite comfortable in your presence and feels no need to furitively adjust clothing. Thanks for being cool, man.
Hey, I ventured out my front door today – there I go with another “look at me” thing. All those men I passed as I walked down the street – I did it just for them!
Personally I have felt in the past that when men make me uncomfortable by looking too long at my chest they are enjoying my discomfort. It makes them feel like they have some power.
I’m sitting at my desk today. I wore in a pair of fleecy boots…it’s cold out. I have under my desk a pair of heels and a pair of slippers. I’m sitting at my desk wearing the slippers…comfy and warm. I had a meeting with a vp…I took off the slippers and put on the heels.
I was, in fact, wearing the heels for her…I want to leave Vps with good impressions and dress is part of that. Slippers aren’t exactly broadcasting serious professional. But it certainly wasn’t to titillate her…I’m pretty sure both of us are married straight women.
Snip
So what is your point relative to the OP? Are you excusing the guys who look too long or can’t put together a coherent sentence because boobs are distracting? Are you suggesting that when women encounter a “looker” they not cover up because boobs are distracting? Are you suggesting that women spare the feelings of the sensitive men in their offices and not adjust/cover/button clothing that may have worked loose or even (gasp) been purposely loosened while not interacting with colleagues for comfort? Are you suggesting that women not wear work attire that could possibly show the slightest curve or bulge?
Look, the women in this thread have made it clear that in a work setting the adjustments/covering up questioned by the OP are most often not a reflection of the men they come in contact with but rather due to the nature of women’s business wear and wanting to look professional. The lady dopers have also said that on occasion someone will creep them out by looking too long and they’ll cover up in response. Your contribution, which began as a response to the foolish suggestion by Troppus that boobs “aren’t a big deal,” seems to boil down to: boobs are distracting, it’s hard to talk to women and not look at their chests because boobs are distracting and it takes 100% of a man’s focus to not look at your distracting boobs so what did you say again. So when you wonder if maybe you’re expressing yourself poorly, yes, yes you are because every respectful thing you say is followed by “…but boobs are distracting.” As long as we’re dealing with everyday work wear the distraction is the guy’s problem. If you (in general) can’t handle it, use email.