# Showing my ignorance: What's the difference between pasta and "noodles" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547 "2013-10-29T12:58:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/41 "2013-10-31T17:19:43Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, and just to be clear (although it should be from the rest of the thread), the FDA definition is _not_ one that I use when talking about noodles. That is an oddly exclusive definition for noodle. I don’t have time to find the context now, but the [Wikipedia definition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noodle)isn’t bad save for the rolling flat requirement. I don’t know for sure if there are noodles that don’t start with a flattened dough, but it seems possible. I guess there can be some dispute about the difference between dumplings and noodles that would make that a little more complicated to resolve. > [@](#): > > The noodle is a type of staple food[1] made from some type of unleavened dough which is rolled flat and cut into one of a variety of shapes. While long, thin strips may be the most common, many varieties of noodles are cut into waves, helices, tubes, strings, or shells, or folded over, or cut into other shapes. Noodles are usually cooked in boiling water, sometimes with cooking oil or salt added. They are often pan-fried or deep-fried. Noodles are often served with an accompanying sauce or in a soup. Noodles can be refrigerated for short-term storage, or dried and stored for future use. ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/42 "2013-10-31T17:26:14Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’d say that pasta and asian noodles are both subsets of noodles. One is apples, the other pears. Ravioli and tortellini are pasta, but who the hell would consider them noodles? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/43 "2013-10-31T18:21:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That is an oddly exclusive definition for noodle. That’s why you get weird labeling on some Asian products that call it “alimentary paste.” I had thought the FDA relaxed their rules on this, but that’s what I found on their website, so who knows? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/44 "2013-10-31T18:25:27Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > Ravioli and tortellini are pasta, but who the hell would consider them noodles? Yeah, while I’ve heard lasagna sheets referred to as noodles, I don’t think I’ve heard ravioli referred to as such. That said, I have heard of “stuffed noodles,” although that is a very rare usage, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/45 "2013-10-31T19:26:33Z")
Me. They’re noodles with stuff in them. Well, I’d never say “I bought some ravioli noodles” but if someone presented me with a “bag of noodles” and it contained tortellini, I wouldn’t consider that a violation of the label. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/46 "2013-10-31T19:29:30Z")
I would, certainly. I sure as heck wouldn’t refer to ravioli as “asian noodles”, which is what is implied when someone says "pasta:asian noodles :: apples:fruit. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/47 "2013-10-31T19:39:05Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I would, certainly. I sure as heck wouldn’t refer to ravioli as “asian noodles”, which is what is implied when someone says "pasta:asian noodles :: apples:fruit. That’s not the analogy, though. It’s pasta:noodles::apples:fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/48 "2013-10-31T19:57:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s not the analogy, though. It’s pasta:noodles::apples:fruit. Yes it is. It’s mentioned in post #33. The one you wrote here is closer to what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/49 "2013-10-31T20:19:11Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Yes it is. It’s mentioned in post #33. The one you wrote here is closer to what I’m saying. Ah. I obviously read what I wanted to read, but I have a feeling the poster would reword. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/50 "2013-10-31T21:07:38Z")
Upon review, I think you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/51 "2013-10-31T21:27:19Z")
The FSM does not discriminate on the basis of nation of origin, grain, or egg content. All are equal under the beneficent touch of His Noodly Appendage. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/52 "2013-10-31T22:01:13Z")
Where does spaetzle fit in?? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/53 "2013-10-31T22:05:48Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > Where does spaetzle fit in?? Heh. I was going to bring them up earlier, but wasn’t sure how well-known they are. I’m happy to lop them in the noodle or small dumpling category. But they also come in noodle-y and dumpling-like shapes, so there’s that. I make the more teardrop, pea-sized ones, but I’m happy to classify them as either. I’d probably describe mine as miniature dumplings to somebody who was unfamiliar with the concept. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/54 "2013-10-31T22:09:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Heh. I was going to bring them up earlier, but wasn’t sure how well-known they are. I’m happy to lop them in the noodle or small dumpling category. But they also come in noodle-y and dumpling-like shapes, so there’s that. I make the more teardrop, pea-sized ones, but I’m happy to classify them as either. I’d probably describe mine as miniature dumplings to somebody who was unfamiliar with the concept. I was going to mention that too. But spaetzle in particular can start a dumpling/noodle holy war 🙂 ETA: I’m perfectly fine calling them noodles, and a variety that isn’t made from flattened dough. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/55 "2013-11-01T00:49:48Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > Ravioli and tortellini are pasta, but who the hell would consider them noodles? In Asia, they would be considered dumplings, which in essence they are. And like Noodles, there are tons of varieties of dumplings, so let’s not go there. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/56 "2013-11-01T00:57:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I was going to mention that too. But spaetzle in particular can start a dumpling/noodle holy war 🙂 > > ETA: I’m perfectly fine calling them noodles, and a variety that isn’t made from flattened dough. Then I guess we get into the whole noodle/pasta dough that’s grated into little gravel-like shapes. Or stuff like orzo. I want to use the word “noodle” to cover all these things, but I guess I wouldn’t necessarily call those noodles. Maybe pasta (whether Italian or not, with egg or not.) So confusing. ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/57 "2013-11-01T01:08:35Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > I’d say that pasta and asian noodles are both subsets of noodles. One is apples, the other pears. Did you see my post above? So all of this: > [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > Asian Wheat Noodles: (wheat flour, salt, water, and sometimes eggs and flavorings). > • Dan Mien = Chinese Egg Noodles (Often used in stir fries and a variety of dishes including Lo Men and Chow Mien. Also comes in a vast variety of shapes used for different cooking). > • Ganmien = Chinese Wheat Noodles (Mostly used for soups. Also comes in a variety of shapes. Different shapes will also have different names). > • Yi Mien = e-fu Noodles (Flat Egg Noodles). > • Gook Soo =Korean Wheat Noodles (Long and flat resembling fettucine). > • Hiyamugi = Japanese Wheat Noodles (Long and slender often served cold). > • Hokkien Mee = Singapore Noodles (Wheat and eggs. Thick yellow often stir fried). > • Mi Chay = Vietnamese Wheat Noodles (Looks like a birds nest). > • Misua = Filipino Wheat Noodles (Very slender like Angel hair pasta). > • Pancit = Flour Sticks (Wheat and coconut oil. Used for traditional Filipino dish Pancit). > • Ramen = Japanese take on Chinese Wheat noodles. > • Somen = Japanese wheat noodles. (Very thin and often served cold). > • Udon = Japanese wheat noodles. (Very thick noodles served mostly in soups). > • Wonton = Chinese Soup noodles. > Asian Rice Noodles: (Made with rice flour) > • Laksa Noodles = Looks like white spaghetti. Used in a variety of Laksa dishes in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia. > • Ban pho, Hor fun, Sen lek, Kway teow = Medium rice Noodles which come in different widths. The different names are in order; Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, Malay. (Used in a vast variety of dishes). > • Rice stick noodles. Again different names given in different countries. Used in a vast number of dishes. > • Rice Vermicelli. Different names given all over Asia. Again used in all kinds of dishes > • And more… > Other Asian Noodles (This is where it gets interesting). > • Agar Noodles = Made from algae. Originally invented by the Japanese 400 years ago, but now found all over Asia. > • Arrowroot Noodles = Made from Arrowroot starch. Korean and Vietnamese food. > • Bean Curd Noodles = AKA Tofu noodles. Rubbery noodles used all over Asia. > • Bean Curd Skin Noodles = Used mainly in China, but can also be found elsewhere. > • Cellophane Noodles = So named as they are almost transparent. Made from Mung Beans and found mainly in China and South East Asia. > • Cornstarch Noodles. = Pancit luglug. Filipino Noodles. > • Harusame = Similar to Cellophane Noodles, but made of potato. Japanese noodles. > • Dangmyun = Korean Noodles made with Sweet potatoes . > • Buckwheat Noodles = Made with Buckwheat flour. In Japanese it’s Soba. In Korea it’s Naengmyon, but the Koreans also add potato starch in theirs. > • Seaweed Noodles = Made of Seaweed. Found in China, Korea and Japan. > • Shirataki = Japanese noodles made from Devil’s Tongue Yams. Used in Sukiyaki. > • Hu Tieu Bot Loc = Vietnamese Tapioca Noodles. Made from tapioca starch. ``` Equals Pasta? ``` So in your book Rice Stick Noodle and Chinese Wheet Noodles come from the same tree, whereas pasta would be on a tree of its own. If we were to take the above three; the Chinese Wheet Noodles and Pasta are more closly related than the Rice Stick Noodles. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/58 "2013-11-01T11:21:01Z")
Why would you think I consider those pasta? Where on earth did I do so much as imply such a thing? Did you read any of the words I actually typed? I said they’re all noodles, not that they’re the same thing. You’re free to break them into as many subcategories as you’d like. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/59 "2013-11-01T13:31:49Z")
How about thinking of them in an evolutionary manner, as alluded above, as a family tree? The birthplace of noodle dishes was Asia. Out of Asia one founding population came with Marco Polo and from that founding population pasta and a variety of variations and other species have descended. Meanwhile from that broader population of past noodle dishes today’s Asian noodle dishes have evolved. Ravoli can be considered analogous to whales which came from land animals but they are not land animals, which are mammals that are not land animals and who instead have convergently evolved into fish-like forms, their lineage is noodles but they are a pasta that has convergently evolved into dumpling form. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547/60 "2013-11-01T23:26:15Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > How about thinking of them in an evolutionary manner, as alluded above, as a family tree? > > The birthplace of noodle dishes was Asia. Out of Asia one founding population came with Marco Polo and from that founding population pasta and a variety of variations and other species have descended. Meanwhile from that broader population of past noodle dishes today’s Asian noodle dishes have evolved. Ravoli can be considered analogous to whales which came from land animals but they are not land animals, which are mammals that are not land animals and who instead have convergently evolved into fish-like forms, their lineage is noodles but they are a pasta that has convergently evolved into dumpling form. That is a myth that has been long discounted. I was taught that noodles were mentioned in Italian writings before Marco Polo was even born and that a type of pasta-making device was found in the ruins of Pompeii. The Marco Polo myth is the first one discounted on this link, which is appropriate for this thread: [6 Food Creation Myths You Shouldn’t Believe](http://www.rd.com/slideshows/6-food-creation-myths-you-shouldnt-believe) From that link: > [@](#): > > The noodle story seems plausible because the Western world adopted so many ideas and innovations from China during the Middle Ages. But the tale of the Chinese origin of pasta is a complete fabrication. To prove it, we need only to show that pasta existed in Italy before 1295, the year Marco Polo returned from his 20-year voyage of discovery in the east. Sure enough, there is a legal document dating from 1279 that lists the possessions of a Genovese soldier named Ponzio Bastone. Among them are una bariscella plena de macaronis – ‘a basketful of macaroni’. It seems that footsoldiers routinely carried pasta in their rations. > > The Marco Polo anecdote seems to be a fairly recent invention. In 1929 an article entitled ‘A Saga of Catai’ was published in the Macaroni Journal, then the official trade magazine of the US National Pasta Association. It describes how an Italian sailor with Polo’s expedition went ashore in China and met a beautiful girl who was making fine strings of noodles. He persuaded her to let him try this dish and to take some noodles back to his ship to show Marco Polo. The name of this intrepid sailor: Spaghetti. > > Why did such a fanciful tale catch on? It might have been the authoritative nature of the source – one would think the National Pasta Association would know where its product originated – but the appeal of the story is due mostly to its fairy-tale quality. The encounter between the humble sailor and the beautiful girl are straight out of Sinbad; the gift of noodles that turns out to be immensely valuable is like the seed from which Jack’s beanstalk grew. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/showing-my-ignorance-whats-the-difference-between-pasta-and-noodles/672547.md?page=4)