# Shrub: "...marriage is between a man and a woman." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881 "2003-07-02T22:36:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/1 "2003-07-02T22:36:50Z")
Governor Bush exposed his homophobic colors today while disingenuously declining to endorse an [anti-gay marriage amendment.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63871-2003Jul2.html) > [@](#): > > “I don’t know if it’s necessary yet,” Bush told reporters at the White House. “Let’s let the lawyers look at the full ramifications of the recent Supreme Court hearing.” > > He added: “What I do support is a notion that marriage is between a man and a woman.” '…not necessary yet?" What the fuck is that supposed to mean? I’ll tell you what it means. He’s saying that as long as staes don’t legalize same-sex marriage then we don’t need an amendment. If states _do_ legalize gay marriage, _then_ it’s time to get out the crayons and mark up the Constitution. As to the remark that marriage is “between a man and a woman,” I notice he gives no rationale or explanation of this remark, no doubt because it is derived solely from his mush-brained, shallow, fundie views and not from any serious legal thought or theory. Anyway, I’m sending a hearty “Fuck you” out to Shrub and his mealy-mouthed, back-handed “compassionate conservatism.” I hope his daughters turn out to be lesbian, Wiccan vegans. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/2 "2003-07-02T22:42:41Z")
Huh. And that would make [Bill Clinton](http://www.cnn.com/US/9609/10/gay.marriage/)…a mush-brained, shallow, fundie-head as well. Correct? > [@](#): > > September 10, 1996 > Web posted at: 5:15 p.m. EDT > WASHINGTON (CNN) – The Senate gave final congressional approval Tuesday to a bill that would deny federal recognition of same-sex marriages and give states the right to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages licensed in other states. > > In a separate vote, the Senate voted 50-49 against a bill that would have banned employers from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation. > > Senators voted 85-14 for the Defense of Marriage Act. The House overwhelmingly passed the bill in July, and **President Clinton has said he will sign it.** ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/3 "2003-07-02T22:42:58Z")
I dunno. Maybe because I’m an old, old woman, but this made me think how far we’ve come, that the government could even possibly be _discussing_ gay marriage, rather than just laughing out loud at it. I’m pessimistic, I just don’t think it will happen, not in my lifetime. But I remember the '60s, pre-Stonewall, when Nice People didn’t even _discuss_ such things, and I find it heartening that Nice People do indeed discuss this. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/4 "2003-07-02T22:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > > Anyway, I’m sending a hearty “Fuck you” out to Shrub and his mealy-mouthed, back-handed “compassionate conservatism.” > I hope his daughters turn out to be lesbian, Wiccan vegans. \*\* … that get their own talk show on CNBC and buy a WNBA team.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jerrybear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8c91f0/32.png) [@Jerrybear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerrybear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/5 "2003-07-02T22:54:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > \*\*… that get their own talk show on CNBC and buy a WNBA team.😃 \*\* …and join the Green Party! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/6 "2003-07-02T22:55:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Huh. And that would make [Bill Clinton](http://www.cnn.com/US/9609/10/gay.marriage/)…a mush-brained, shallow, fundie-head as well. Correct? \*\* I think Clinton was wrong, and that he was pandering somewhat to fundies, but there _is_ a qualitative diffence between saying that a state _doesn’t have_ to recognize gay marriage and saying that it’s _not allowed_ to recognize gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/7 "2003-07-02T22:56:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jerrybear \* > \*\*…and join the Green Party! \*\* driving an electric car…! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/8 "2003-07-02T22:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > And that would make [Bill Clinton](http://www.cnn.com/US/9609/10/gay.marriage/)…a mush-brained, shallow, fundie-head as well. Correct? Sure, but you’re working from the mistaken assumption that Clinton was a far-left liberal to begin with – a notion that falls apart when you remember he gave us the cockamamie “Don’t ask, don’t tell” nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/9 "2003-07-02T23:00:25Z")
Heh. You said “cockamamie.” Oh, and Governor Bush is a doodyhead. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/10 "2003-07-02T23:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Sure, but you’re working from the mistaken assumption that Clinton was a far-left liberal to begin with – a notion that falls apart when you remember he gave us the cockamamie “Don’t ask, don’t tell” nonsense. \*\* Umm…where am I making that assumption **rjung**? I don’t consider Clinton (when considered in total) to be a classic liberal. He was in the DLC, for starters. He got to be president by appealing to the moderate voters of both major parties. I do note that DtC does not consider Clinton “mush brained” and “shallow” with fundie views…even though he apparently took pretty near the same stance on the issue in 1996. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/11 "2003-07-02T23:10:05Z")
The fundies are terrified, and rightfully so. Those who love freedom and equality under the law are now _winning_ in spite of their best efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/12 "2003-07-02T23:22:45Z")
What a shock! President Bush disapproves of gay marriage! _I can’t fucking believe it!!! What is the world coming to when a **mainstream Republican** espouses such sentiments!?_ [/sarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/13 "2003-07-02T23:25:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Umm…where am I making that assumption **rjung**? I don’t consider Clinton (when considered in total) to be a classic liberal. He was in the DLC, for starters. He got to be president by appealing to the moderate voters of both major parties. > > I do note that DtC does not consider Clinton “mush brained” and “shallow” with fundie views…even though he apparently took pretty near the same stance on the issue in 1996. > > Huh. \*\* Did you read my response, **beagle**? They are fundamentally different issues. FWIW, there were many things I disagreed with Clinton about. I’m not a Democrat, I’m an independent leftie. I never liked “Don’t ask, don’t tell.” I disagreed with him on the death penalty, and I _really_ didn’t like it that he sicced the feds on California after it passed its medical marijuana law. BC is a Southern Baptist but I think his public views on gay marriage were based more on cynical political pragmatism than any religious beliefs. Clinton was far too intelligent to be a sincere fundamentalist. GWB, by contrast, is completely unhampered by intellect and swallows that stuff whole. That’s not to say that Clinton deserves a pass for trying to obstruct gay rights, just that his motives were different. I’ll send a 'fuick you" out to him too, if that makes you happy. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/14 "2003-07-02T23:30:04Z")
No president in his (political) right mind would sign _anything_ so controversial without needing to. As long as there are no states that legalize gay marriages then a constitutional amendment isn’t necessary. By signing it, he alienates the entire GLBT community of the United States, but appeases the radical right (which is much bigger than the GLBT community, of course, but it’s not time to write off the queers just yet, if he doesn’t have to); by not signing it - with the above qualification, of course, including the statement that he _would_, you know, if it were actually _necessary_ - he manages to appease both the GLBT folks and the right. Sadly, it’s hardly the _right_ thing to do, but it is - most assuredly - the most _politically expedient and smart_ thing to do. Politics make me sad. ☹ Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/15 "2003-07-02T23:30:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Loopus \* > \*\*What a shock! President Bush disapproves of gay marriage! _I can’t fucking believe it!!! What is the world coming to when a **mainstream Republican** espouses such sentiments!?_ > > [/sarcasm] \*\* It’s not just that he opposes gay marriage but that he apparently would support a Constitutional amendment against it if it ever becomes “necessary.” There’s a difference between him just saying he doesn’t like it (that’s just ordinary, fundie stupidity) and saying that it may become necessary to change the fucking US Constitution to prevent any state from ever legalizing it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/16 "2003-07-02T23:33:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*driving an electric car…! \*\* …while “inhaling”… (oh wait, they already do that) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/17 "2003-07-02T23:41:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Sure, but you’re working from the mistaken assumption that Clinton was a far-left liberal to begin with – a notion that falls apart when you remember he gave us the cockamamie “Don’t ask, don’t tell” nonsense. \*\* I’ve never been a big fan of Clinton and I to used to criticize him heavily for his lame gays in the military solution. That is until I realized the opposition he was facing. He was the first democratic president since the 70’s and had a lot of plans. Ramming homosexuals down the throats of the military might have cost him other programs he was concerned with. Sure, it was an unsatisfactory solution, but it was better then nothing. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/18 "2003-07-02T23:43:36Z")
OK, I’ll bite: “Governor” Bush? The article of course is referring President George Bush, not Governor Jeb Bush of Florida. Have I been wooshed? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/19 "2003-07-02T23:44:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Governor Bush exposed his homophobic colors today while disingenuously declining to endorse an \*\* To the best of my knowledge G.W. Bush has not been a governor for quite some time and is in fact the **President** of the United States. Calling him Governor Bush makes you appear to be just as much a jackass as all those people who type Algore, Klinton, or Shrub. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881/20 "2003-07-02T23:48:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*OK, I’ll bite: “Governor” Bush? The article of course is referring President George Bush, not Governor Jeb Bush of Florida. > > Have I been wooshed? \*\* “Governor” is the only political office that GWB has ever been elected to. Even though he’s no longer the governor of Texas, it’s still a courtesy to refer to him by his old title. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrub-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman/185881.md?page=2)