# Shrub's landing on the aircraft carrier, WTF was the Secret Service thinking???? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567 "2003-05-02T04:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marine\_One](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marine_one/32/3461_2.png) [@Marine\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marine_One)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/21 "2003-05-02T13:49:51Z")
What if the poor pilot did a bolter with the President on board? Think he’d ever hear the end of it? “Whatever happened to that guy that goofed the landing with Bush on board?” “He’s flying a desk in Nome.” ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/22 "2003-05-02T13:51:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I can’t imagine that the Secret Service would ever give approval for Shrub… Somebody wanna cite me where the Secret Service gets to approve or disapprove of the actions of the President of the United States? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/23 "2003-05-02T13:57:57Z")
They did say the Secret Service nixed the idea of George coming in on a hot fighter like an F-18 or the like but I think we can rest assured their voice has little effect on policy. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/24 "2003-05-02T14:03:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*Somebody wanna cite me where the Secret Service gets to approve or disapprove of the actions of the President of the United States? \*\* > [@](#): > > [http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/bush.carrier.landing/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/bush.carrier.landing/index.html) > Bush wanted to swoop onto the deck of the Lincoln aboard an F-18 Hornet, but the Secret Service nixed the idea – they didn’t like leaving the president unguarded in a fighter jet that only has space for the president and a pilot. \>\> Because of Saddam’s ties to terrorists - like Abu Nidal, the hijackers of the Achille Lauro, the Palestinian terror bombers, and such. This excuse is fucking pathetic in spite of how much it has been repeated. The Achile Lauro happened so long ago that it is totally irrelevant. Abu Nidal did not murder anybody and had renounced terrorism, had said the hijacking was a mistake and had condemned the 9/11 attacks. it is pathetic that he can be used as an excuse to invad Iraq. The palestinian terror Bombers? What about them? They can be found in the Palestinian territory, not in Iraq. Why don’t Bush go get them? truly pathetic excuses. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/25 "2003-05-02T14:13:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m sure the military loved Ike and Grant. Didn’t make them good presidents. The military loves Bush because a) he’s a Republican, and the GOP plays to themes that many if not most military members hold dear and b) he let’s them use their toys. Sure, that’s part of it. But they love him because he loves them. He supports them, he listens to them. He’s one of them. Yesterday is a perfect example of why they love him. Anyone who thinks making a carrier landing is a piece of cake doesn’t know what they are talking about. Most people who have done it describe the experience as _terrifying_. You get slammed onto the deck bloody hard, and the deceleration is tremendous. It’s kind of like a big explosion, and you’re in the middle of it. And it’s risky. It’s not just pretend-scary like an amusement park ride. Making a carrier landing tells those guys that this is a president who would take a risk in order to come to _them_ where _they_ work, rather than making them come to him. For military people, yesterday was a big event. Bush now has a military that will follow him into hell if he orders it. > [@](#): > > IMO, this could have been done much cheaper and safer from the Press room. I doubt that militay morale is low after having just done a superb job of whipping Iraq. But a Rose Garden press conference wouldn’t be nearly as dramatic for the campaign to relect Bush as a carrier landing. This wasn’t about politics. I’m sure they were worried that this could have played the other way - hot-dogging president, elevating the military, charges of ‘3rd worldism’, etc. This was all about making a dramatic, symbolic gesture of thanks to the military. Another gesture that would have been lost on Clinton is that Bush is flying off that carrier today rather than ride it into port, because he didn’t want the chaos of having the president on board to interfere with the homecomings of those sailors. So he took an additional risk to make their lives easier. A little thing, but to the guys who are there, it’s a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/26 "2003-05-02T14:32:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Because that was pretty much the start of the war on terror. You may have noticed it - it was in all the papers. > \*\* Except, of course, that Iraq has nothing to do with it. > [@](#): > > \*\* > (I will assume you meant ‘why’) Because of Saddam’s ties to terrorists - like Abu Nidal, the hijackers of the _Achille Lauro_, the Palestinian terror bombers, and such. > \*\* None of which were actively supported in their act. By the way, calling Abu Nidal a link to terrorism is like calling Bush a National Guard jet pilot. > [@](#): > > \*\* > The mission was to remove the Saddam regime from power. Which has happened, and was the occasion for Bush’s speech and the reason the _Abraham Lincoln_ is now heading home. > > \*\* Which only goes to show that whatever they are teaching at West Point, it has precious little to do with Clausewitz. This declaration is quite probably insurpassable in its moronitude and merely goes to show that the neocons have learned zilch from the past. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/27 "2003-05-02T14:44:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\*It’s the President’s fault that there are unemployed Americans? Personally I blame people like Ken Lay and Osama bin laden more than I blame George Bush. \*\* A-ha, ha-ha, ha-ha-ha, ha-ha, ha-ha. Pure fucking ignorance in 30 words or less, fucking brilliant. The hole in the ozone layer is OBL’s fault too. You’ve got to give it to him though, the goblin Bush will get re-elected\* for a second term on the strength of this “campaign”, keep sleeping America. \*maybe even without cheating next time ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/28 "2003-05-02T14:55:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Point the first: Apparently the Secret Service was thinking. The newscasters were all over themselves here in quoting the White House as saying that a tailhook landing is safer than a chopper landing on a carrier. > > Point the second: You have no proof that had President Clinton done the same thing, the press would’ve reacted any differently. > > Point the third: Again, the newsfolks were all over themselves in quoting the White House as saying that a chopper landing is not safer than a tailhook landing on a carrier. > > Point the fourth: Referring to the man by a stupid nickname that he doesn’t even use makes you look, well, stupid. > > Point the fifth: Wishing for him to get murdered not only makes you look stupid, it makes you look vengeful and it’s also a violation of this board’s rules. \*\* One more. Point sixth: It was mentioned on the new last night that a helo could not be used, as the carrier was too far off shore. ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/29 "2003-05-02T15:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > This excuse is fucking pathetic in spite of how much it has been repeated. The Achile Lauro happened so long ago that it is totally irrelevant. Abu Nidal did not murder anybody and had renounced terrorism, had said the hijacking was a mistake and had condemned the 9/11 attacks. it is pathetic that he can be used as an excuse to invad Iraq. You’re thinking of Abu Abbas, who planned the Achile Lauro hijacking. Abu Nidal is a different terrorist who was in Iraq for a time. He was pretty viscious in his heyday, but he’s now dead and hadn’t been a bigshot for quite awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/30 "2003-05-02T15:10:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Great Unwashed \* > \*\* > > \*maybe even without cheating next time \*\* Mykeru? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/31 "2003-05-02T15:44:55Z")
Yeah, Mykeru registered that nick over a year ago just so he could mess with you now. In other news, Chewbacca has been sighted living on Endor… ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/32 "2003-05-02T15:46:15Z")
Well, Shodan, I guess in spite of the lack of evidence (and the evidence to the contrary) you are one of the 45%(!) of americans: > **[iraqback.pdf](https://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/c2k/iraqback.pdf)** > > 16.07 KB …that believe that Saddam Hussein was personally responsible for Sept 11th. I think that same 45% were definitely impressed by the carrier landing (I was too). The difference is that that 45% will remember only the carrier landing. I’ll remember the dodgy assertions in the speech as well. Iraq - 9/11 link - bzzzt! Iraq - Terrorism link - damn murky…I’m going for bzzzt! Iraq’s WMD - threat to USA - bzzt! 9/11, war, cool carrier landing - reelection - bing! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/33 "2003-05-02T15:53:53Z")
It was a cheap, grandstanding stunt performed for the benefit of mullet- wearing Nascar fans. He’s still a fucking draft-dodger. He’s still a fucking wartime deserter. He’s still a fucking moron. He’s still a fucking liar. He’s still a fucking war criminal. He’s still a fucking self-righteous, dry-drunk, grandiose, lazy, spoiled rich boy. This whole stunt served no purpose except to get him on TV. I never wished so hard for a rope to fucking snap. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/34 "2003-05-02T16:07:21Z")
Jesus, **Diogenes** , take a Valium. I disliked Clinton as much as anyone, but I never wished death on the man. Photo ops are part of being a politician. This one just happened to be on a slightly larger scale than most. What’s the big deal? Why does it bother you that the Bush administration plays the photo op game well? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/35 "2003-05-02T16:13:20Z")
What bothered me was how some press seemed to make people that GWB PERSONALLY landed the plane on the carrier. I’ll bet right now that a large segment of the public thinks that he did it. Oh and if I were president Air Force One would be a F-18 no doubt about it. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/36 "2003-05-02T16:16:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amok \* > You’re thinking of Abu Abbas, who planned the Achile Lauro hijacking. Abu Nidal is a different terrorist who was in Iraq for a time. He was pretty viscious in his heyday, but he’s now dead and hadn’t been a bigshot for quite awhile. Yup, I read the post quick (“like Abu Nidal, the hijackers of the Achille Lauro,…”) and my mind only thought of the Achille Lauro but in fact the post does refer to Abu Abbas as he was the Achille Lauro man so, my response still stands as he is mentioned in the post I was answering to, if not by name. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/37 "2003-05-02T16:35:04Z")
What happened to all the cries to send our political leaders who into dangerous military situations instead of sitting comfy in the White House or Capitol when they declare military action? Hey, the Pres ain’t gonna get into a fire fight, but a carrier landing is balls-ey, hits home with the servicemen and service women, and served it purpose. Diogenes the Cynic: "It was a cheap, grandstanding stunt performed for the benefit of mullet- wearing Nascar fans. He’s still a fucking draft-dodger. He’s still a fucking wartime deserter. He’s still a fucking moron. He’s still a fucking liar. He’s still a fucking war criminal. He’s still a fucking self-righteous, dry-drunk, grandiose, lazy, spoiled rich boy." When he was growing up, should he have said, "No! I demand to be poor! Being rich will be held against me all my life - why I have no idead but it will! He was also lazy enough to graduate Harvard and become President of the United States. You got issues? Go do something constructive with them, rather than being a bitching moaning hater. Don’t be such an asswipe. Mullet wearing Nascar fans? Um, what’s your issue with good ol’ boys? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/38 "2003-05-02T16:40:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by keithnmick \* > \*\*Well, Shodan, I guess in spite of the lack of evidence (and the evidence to the contrary) you are one of the 45%(!) of americans: > [http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/c2k/iraqback.pdf](http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/c2k/iraqback.pdf) > …that believe that Saddam Hussein was personally responsible for Sept 11th. \*\* No, I am one of the Americans who believe that Saddam is a legitimate subject of the war on terror. Which, as I said, pretty much started on Sept. 11. See how it works? Think carefully about how the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor brought us into war in Europe, or how come we bombed Afghanistan when ObL is a Saudi national, and you will see how these things develop. > [@](#): > > The Achile Lauro happened so long ago that it is totally irrelevant. You have an interesting view of the statute of limitations on murder. By ‘interesting’, I mean ‘stupid’. > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## The mission was to remove the Saddam regime from power. Which has happened, and was the occasion for Bush’s speech and the reason the Abraham Lincoln is now heading home. > > Which only goes to show that whatever they are teaching at West Point, it has precious little to do with Clausewitz. This declaration is quite probably insurpassable in its moronitude and merely goes to show that the neocons have learned zilch from the past. Which of the words in my quote were too hard for you? Or are you claiming - [ul] [li]That the purpose of the invasion was not regime change, or[/li][li] That Saddam Hussein is still in power, or[/li][li] That Bush did not make a speech to the effect that major military action to overthow him was now ended, or [/li][li]That the _Abraham Lincoln_ is not now heading home, or [/li][li]That Vom Krieg has something to say about Bush’s motivations in waging war on Iraq[/ul][/li] FYI, I have never graduated from West Point. Neither has Bush. Neither, apparently, have you - they don’t accept the droolingly cretinous. **Diogenes** - it is a good thing you are not a conservative. When we make bigotted statements, and wish death on our political opponents, people call us on it. You may wish to read **Lynne Bodoni** ’s sticky on wishing death on others, even in the Pit. Then print it out, roll it up tightly, insert it into your left nostril, and breathe deeply. Stick the other end up your ass first. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/39 "2003-05-02T16:42:32Z")
Diogenes, your animosity for GWB is obviously heartfelt. It almost approaches the level of disdain that I and many others feel for Bill Clinton. You and I could shout “stolen election” and “liar under oath” at each other all day long, but it won’t change either of our minds. Bush has made a gesture to make members of the military feel special and appreciated…a courtesy many people in this country are unwilling to extend. One remark struck me more than any other during his speech. He talked about 150 babies being born during the 10 months that the crew of the Lincoln have been at sea. Complaining about the manner of his arrival on the carrier and attaching cynical motivations to it cheapens the thank you that those 5000 people deserve. They have made personal sacrifices that most of us are unwilling to make. And yes, they volunteered. That doesn’t change the fact that they have made real and personal sacrifices for all of us. ---
**Author:** ![oliversarmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/eb8c5e/32.png) [@oliversarmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oliversarmy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/40 "2003-05-02T16:44:35Z")
Diogenes said: > [@](#): > > It was a cheap, grandstanding stunt performed for the benefit of mullet- wearing Nascar fans. I always find it amusing when the left insults and condescends to the people (the poor and the blue-collar workers of America) that they claim to represent and defend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567.md?page=3)