# Shrub's landing on the aircraft carrier, WTF was the Secret Service thinking???? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567 "2003-05-02T04:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/161 "2003-05-05T01:10:59Z")
**Linyt** , perhaps I did not make my self clear. As you noted the flight to the aircraft carrier, the speech and the whole operation the last few days was political grandstanding of the first order. So be it–politics is a game that invites this sort of balderdash. No place in my last post or any other will you find a word that denigrates the officers and enlisted members who do the dirty work. My point is that throughout out this thread are repeated claims that the President was a coward because he got a position in the National Guard or that Vice-president Gore was a coward because his job when he was on active service did not present a grave risk that he would get his butt blown off. I say it is not a mater of being brave or being a coward but rather is a matter of different ideas of duty. That lots of people did not see their duty as involving active service in war time does not in any way justify or make noble that concept of duty. There is, after all draft avoidance and there is draft evasion. It is offensive that people who are now eager to serve their country in an office of power and acclaim did not see it as their duty to serve when there was precious little power or acclaim to be had and some amount of sacrifice was required. It is even more offensive when those self same people wrap them selves in the flag and go out to greet the troops pretending to be another member of the old brigade. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/162 "2003-05-05T02:27:09Z")
I don’t think you denigrated the servicepeople at all, **Spavined** , and I wasn’t offended by anything _you_ wrote, although I disagree with sentiments like these: > [@](#): > > In the meantime we are presented with the spectacle of our President (and the Secretary of Defense for that matter) putting on a John Wayne act. All too few of us remember that The Duke never heard a shot fired in anger. I don’t want a country run by pretend heros. This is below the belt. There are other ways to serve your country than the military, you know. I would just as soon vote someone into office who had served 20 years with the Peace Corps, if I thought he was more qualified than the candidate. And, if he declared war, I certainly wouldn’t bring his lack of military service into the fray, even if I felt compelled to protest. One person’s “John Wayne act” is another person’s display of personal courage to make a point. Actually, there’s not a lot of difference in definition between the two sentiments, is there? I suppose it depends a lot on your opinion of the person doing it. Personally, I thought it was very well played. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/163 "2003-05-05T02:37:05Z")
Good God, SG! How many prejudicious and malicious comments can you pack into one post? I’m referring to your asinine comments about John Wayne and others above. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/164 "2003-05-05T02:52:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Payton’s Servant \* > All the link you provided said was that Air Force One sat on the runway, and that rumors that air traffic was disrupted or held up as a result of that **were completely unfounded and untrue.** The CNN link says, "I happened to be on Air Force One for the infamous “haircut flight,” where **President Clinton held up traffic at LAX** while he was getting a haircut. > [@](#): > > Rochelle, just throws it out there without any evidence to back up his claim. Carl Rochelle was _there_ – on Air Force One, with President Clinton. You must be quite young, **Payton’s Servant** , or you would remember it. This haircut took place early in Clinton’s presidency, and it was big news. Here are 506 cites about the incident. [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clinton+haircut+LAX&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clinton+haircut+LAX&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web) ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/165 "2003-05-05T04:30:39Z")
> [@](#): > > He cowered in a bunker like a scared little bitch. When it was obvious that the attack was over he came out from under the table he was turtling under and went out to exploit the attack for political advantage. He’s a gutless little prick AFAIAC. Let’s not forget his draft-dodging and his desertion during Nam Hey, I hate Bush too but I don’t begrudge him his Sept 11th bunker cowering. I would have done the same thing if I were in his position. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/166 "2003-05-05T05:34:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > When was the last Al-Queda attack against the United States? There haven’t been any? Hmm. I’d say President Bush is at least marginally effective, in that regard. By that logic, then, I offer the following– _Number of American office buildings destroyed by al Qaeda terrorists under the Clinton Administration:_ None. _Number of American office buildings destroyed by al Qaeda terrorists under the George W. Bush Administration:_ Two. Ergo, Clinton was better at protecting the United States from _al Qaeda_ than Bush has been. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/167 "2003-05-05T06:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > \*\*When was the last Al-Queda attack against the United States? There haven’t been any? Hmm. I’d say President Bush is at least marginally effective, in that regard. \*\* Maybe they are saving up to nuke his reelection chances with a new attack. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/168 "2003-05-05T10:32:29Z")
> [@](#): > > I was very pleased to be on Air Force One that day, because it usually meant you were going to get home early. But then I noticed the press plane pulled by us, take off, and head home. Doesn’t this part of Rochelle’s antidote argue against the fact that traffic at LAX was held up, since the press plane pulled around them and went on? Both cites given so far seem to indicate the same thing–Clinton did get a haircut on AF1, which held up AF1’s return, but did not hold up traffic at LAX, much less worldwide. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/169 "2003-05-05T11:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Payton’s Servant \* > \*\* First of all, does Carl Rochelle offer anything that could even plausibly be called evidence that air traffic was delayed because AFOne sat on the runway at LAX? > . \*\* All he would have had to do was turn on the local LA news. It happened. It just wasn’t important. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/170 "2003-05-05T12:00:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*What specifically did Shrub do to get anybody out of power. Other people wrote (mostly dishonst) speeches for him and he read them off a teleprompter. That is the sum of his personal involvement with this or any other war. > > . \*\* So Bush is not the evil we need to fight? I don’t like Bush anymore than you do (well, maybe a _little_ more), but let’s stay in reality. I disapprove of the photo/op. I disapprove of most photo/ops, and this is no different. He could have made that speech from anywhere. That was a lot of money spent that didn’t need to be spent. And yes, I’d of felt the same way if Clinton had done it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/171 "2003-05-05T13:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*By that logic, then, I offer the following– > > _Number of American office buildings destroyed by al Qaeda terrorists under the Clinton Administration:_ None. > \*\* The African embassy buildings destroyed by al Qaeda during the Clinton years have already been cited. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\* > _Number of American office buildings destroyed by al Qaeda terrorists under the George W. Bush Administration:_ Two. > > Ergo, Clinton was better at protecting the United States from _al Qaeda_ than Bush has been. 😉 \*\* What, the Pentagon doesn’t count? ObL tries to destroy the World Trade Center. Clinton does nothing. This gives ObL the chance to have another crack at it, this time involving airplanes. At a certain point, this goes beyond selective memory into fantasy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/172 "2003-05-05T13:55:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > **_Number of American office buildings destroyed by al Qaeda terrorists under the George W. Bush Administration:_ Two.** Actually, the World Trade Center had something like 9 or 10 buildings, all of which were destroyed. The two towers were the tallest, but the others were not small. Some were 50 stories or so. Also, a number of other buildings in the neighborhood were destroyed, including part of the World Financial Center directly across the street. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/173 "2003-05-05T14:36:08Z")
At least Bush does a better job of protecting us from _domestic_ terrorists. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/174 "2003-05-05T15:42:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*At least Bush does a better job of protecting us from _domestic_ terrorists. 😃 \*\* Why doesn’t he arrest John Ashcroft then? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/175 "2003-05-05T16:09:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Actually, the World Trade Center had something like 9 or 10 buildings, all of which were destroyed. The two towers were the tallest, but the others were not small. Some were 50 stories or so. Also, a number of other buildings in the neighborhood were destroyed, including part of the World Financial Center directly across the street. \*\* Actually, the WTC was 7 buildings, and yes, none are left. The World Financial Center (“WFC”), which consists of 3 skyscrapers, suffered only superficial damage. The public atrium was in pretty bad shape (it has a domed glass roof), but certainly not destroyed, and it has been completely rebuilt. (Cite: I work there) The Deutsche Bank building is in bad shape. There was so much mold damage, the building is toxic. There’s a big black tarp hanging over it. They’re fighting with insurance whether to demolish and rebuild or clean. (Question: Where do you get tarps for 60 story buildings?). The main Federal Post Office is closed and may not reopen. The Verizon building has “open offices.” Lastly, the Millenium Hotel officially reopens today. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/176 "2003-05-05T16:12:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Why doesn’t he arrest John Ashcroft then? \*\* I wasnt aware that Ashcroft had killed anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/177 "2003-05-05T16:38:50Z")
Probably doesn’t want to. The last dead guy he was involved with beat him in the election. I’m sorry. Cheap joke. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/178 "2003-05-05T16:55:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Probably doesn’t want to. The last dead guy he was involved with beat him in the election. > > I’m sorry. Cheap joke. \*\* Cheap, but good. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/179 "2003-05-05T18:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*The CNN link says, "I happened to be on Air Force One for the infamous “haircut flight,” where **President Clinton held up traffic at LAX** while he was getting a haircut. Carl Rochelle was _there_ – on Air Force One, with President Clinton. > > You must be quite young, **Payton’s Servant** , or you would remember it. This haircut took place early in Clinton’s presidency, and it was big news. Here are 506 cites about the incident. [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clinton+haircut+LAX&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clinton+haircut+LAX&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web) \*\* I’m 34 and I remember it all too well. as for your Google search, I think [this cite](http://www.compumind.com/newsletters/1998/1027.html) debunks the whole “_Air Force One held up traffic at LAX once and for all._” 'Course the dittoheads will believe what they want to, even if it isn’t true. Which is sad. ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567/180 "2003-05-05T18:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*You really are a simple sonofabitch, aren’t you? Several cites have been provided. Your response? Fingers in ear, LALALALALALALA I can’t hear you!!! > > I realize that Clinton-supporters need a loose grasp on reality. A stunted intellect helps as well, it seems. But don’t try passing your fucking obstinacy and stupidity off as a ‘cite’ for a well-proven event. \*\* Brutus, To quote Howard Cosell, [“Hoist on your own petard.”](http://www.commonsensecentral.com/Mars_n_stuff_june_2001/secret_history_of_us/1993.html) :wally [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shrubs-landing-on-the-aircraft-carrier-wtf-was-the-secret-service-thinking/172567.md?page=10)